The big question

[Manta]

Bob,

Some time ago you posted this line,

...Can a single multi-plate cell produce enough Hydroxy gas to power an auto at 100%...?
I think that is obvious ! Yes it can but it takes a large amount of amperage to do that, even with the most efficient of cells....

-------------------------------------------------

My question for all is,  Do you,  after taking everything into consideration,  believe that 100% is truly obtainable ?
After reading through tons of documentation on this and the other site I am tempted to say NO.  The amount needed  by the engine simply can't be met.  Except maybe at idle. I will accept that gains in MPG can be made.  But not the full 100%
The kicker is the apparent fact that burning hydroxy will only produce the same amount (slightly less,  actually) of power as was used in it's production.  hence you will need an external supply to augment the onboard generating system.
As they say,  extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof;  and I don't believe we are getting that proof.

Fess up guys,  what do you really think.

Manta

[Bob]

What do I REALY think
 well thats easy .. I believe if I had unlimited funds I'ed be running 100% hydroxy now....
we already have the knowledge needed, the engine dies not need as much hydroxy gas as you think it does
and idleing a 2.5Liter engine on 3LPM proves that ...yes it will take a great deal of Hydroxy gas but not as much as you think... My guess is 12 to 15LPM for my truck to cruse on...
thats a great deal of Hydroxy gas to me but it is NOT un-obtainable !
20 to 25LPM will make it a sure thing indeed...
if I had the altenators needed and the cells made I could do it now ... and I will,its justa matter of time.
...
Bob........

[Cowboy]

I think it is truly obtainable, but as Bob says, our funds limit our research and our products.  Perhaps it's not obtainable by a plate design, but a 'perpetual' type machine running hydroxy is 100% feasible.  It's been rumored to me that their's a company in Switzerland with a small perpetual machine in it's lobby.  But that defies current physics, so... yeah.  If you can sustain an ICE at idle with hho only, then you can run it full bore hho only.  It's just a matter of getting it right.  I've been out of hte testing business as of late due to life happening, but Once I get back into it I'll be using everything that's in here to design my machine.  It will be a nice machine.  Unfortunately it may be another 2 yrs before that happens because of other happenings of life.  Hopefully the resources will be available over that period, but I'm not counting on it.  Maybe you guys will have it figured out by then and I won't have to hurt my brain making it work.   

[Bob]

Manta: the problem is Most everyone calculates the amount of Hydroxy gas needed to run a I.C. engine
like this... engine displacement x rpm = amount of Hydroxy gas needed....
....
this is OBVIOUSLY so wrong it screams at you.... but people still do it this way because that is what they know about an engine....
...
they do not take into consideration that it only takes a small puff of the hydroxy gas to fire the cylinder... you don't have to fill the cylinder each time it comes around ...EVEN at FULL THROTTLE
... if you did there wouldn't be any vacume let to suck the gas into the cylinder....
...
and when do you drive at full throttle ? so how much gas are you going to use ?
...
it is very hard to estimate how much Hydroxy gas it will take to run an engine...any engine
untill you do it this engine takes 10LPM to run... but that does not mean all engines will run on 10LPM
... Obviously...
people try to say ok there is X amount of BTU's in gasoline and X amount of BTU's in Hydroxy gas so it will take x amount of Volume of Hydroxy gas to run the engine... when a BTU is a "British Thermal Unit"
 or HEAT ...not a measure of the gases explosive power.... so its compairing apples to oranges !
...
the nay sayers are extreamily good at making it sound very scientific when they compair 2 seperate things ! even guys that we think are on OUR side still mess it up when it comes to 100% running Hydroxy gas... you can make an engine idle on hydroxy gas but when it comes to the hudge volumes needed to run at full throttle there is no way you can produce that much Hydroxy gas !... sound about right ?
if it takes as much as 1000LPM it can still be done.... it may not be practical, but it can be done.
but I'm here to tell you it ain't going to take anywhere near as much as most people think, it will take more than I am capable of makeing at the moment of that I am quite sure, but much less than I am able to make in the back of my pickup bed with 2- 200 amp altenators.... of that I am also quite sure...  I also know I can still drive my truck even with 2-200 amp altenators on it pulling 400amps
because that is only going to cost about 20hp at the most(more like 16hp)
so whats happening is I am useing 20 hp to make 200hp... and conventional physicssays ya can't make more than you put in ! ...... well Obviously its WRONG then !
because the numbers are there... I can make enough to power the truck of 2 big altenators
the engine is a 2.4liter engine and I am guessing I only need 12 to 20LPM to run 4000rpm with a load
less if I keep the RPM to 2500rpm and below....
so whats not to believe ?
why is it hard to see that it can be done ? are you reading too many articals that say it can't be done and why ? and believeing their flawed reasoning ?
I read them too just to see if I may have missed something and I have never found one thats right yet !
don't listen to them their all wet, build it and you'll see that it can be done !
AHAHAHAH
Bob......

 

[KF-Puffin1]

To be honest with you ...NO i dont think its possible while useing plates to do the job.....i think its going to take a different approach to achieve the amount of gas that we want to put out at a decent amperage.


was thinking it may take  21- 18 inch plates in a tero style cell to do that job.

[hydrotinkerer]

I was thinking 19-18" plates might produce better. Just my 2cents though.

[randy]

I know for a fact that I can get 12 LPM from 6 washer cells dead cold!!!

[hydrotinkerer]

At what amps Randy?

[randy]

120 amps

[candyman55]

I am not sure that the brute force method is the anwser either. But from what I have learned both personaly and from every one else in the past few months. I have no doubt that 100% HHO Vehicles are gonna happen. 

[randy]

I've all ready achieved 2 LPM @ 20 amps dead cold with one washer cell, but as you know it heats up it becomes a runaway cell. manta may have found a cure for this, if not I think I've found another cure.

[Bob]

Thank you Randy !
12LPM at 120amps is Not un-obtainable....

Now Randy You already know that your truck will idle on 4LPM... infact if I remember right
you had it running at 2000RPM on hydroxy gas only ... correct ?
...
So...what is stopping you from running it to 3000RPM with 12LPM ?
... will that work do you think ?
...
I think it will, but my engine is a bit smaller than yours and has a bunch less stuff on it to eat up
the power ( not being a 4x4)
...
I realize that heat is going to be a big issue when pulling that much gas out of the water ...
so a cooling system is going to be a necessity  I don't think we can do it without a cooling system
... in fact I'm not even going to try !
...
  I'm going to try very soon to budget a 200Amp altenator....
and get this thing started if nothing else...
...
what I am wondering about is the need for  Mutable cells... by that I mean, if 6 cells at 120 amps will give you 12LPM   3 ( or 4) cells at 120 amps will give you slightly more than 12LPM... much more heat though but, if you have to have a cooling system anyway... where is the problem ?
...
there is a point where Not enough Plate area comes into the picture... like 1 cell at 120 amps
 It can't produce 12LPM because there simply isn't enough plate surface area( at least I don't think so!) ... so rather than run into that barrior  have enough plate area to do the job but not too much more....
...
what ever you believe about weather it is obtainable or not there is alwayse other ways to do it.
the Arc Generator is known to produce Hudge amounts of Hydroxy gas with a very small ( in compairison)
power requirements... its Much more efficient... a cornish generator could be used if proper cautions are used...  but 100% is not that hard to obtain on paper... its doing it on a limited budget that is the hard part !
...
Bob........

[Manta]

Well,  that covers a fair range of opinion.
Yes,  I have ,  just like the rest of you,  read all the 'no,  it can't be done' stuff. But To me it all comes down to the conservation of energy problem. i.e if it takes ten horse power to produce x amount of hydroxy,  then burning that x amount will only produce ten horse power;  less losses due to friction etc.  I know many disagree with this, but that is what physics says. NOW,  before I become persona non grata,  let me say that maybe there are ways around some of this problem,  and that is where the hope is.
Getting a small amount of hydroxy into the cylinders is in fact augmenting the 20% of oxygen that is already in the air. So we are not actually asking the hydroxy to do all the work. Maybe this is what is going on.  We'll see.
I don't go for the big amps route. I feel sure that most designs don't get best use from the cell.  Randy's idea seems to be an exception. Maybe that is the way to go.
The tube cell idea put forward by Fisher etc seemed full of promise,  but we still don't have a bottle fill test.
Amps * volts and the resistance in the cell produce heat. Are these big amp cells going to boil ?

What I find frustrating is that some promising reports fall short in critical areas. I take it that you all have read the report that shows a small four stroke engine being run of hydroxy alone. It ran this way for 6 second whilst being supplied from a balloon full of gas. Why didn't the builder have a cell supplying on board gas connected at the same time ? just to further prove his point.  Mind you,  his real point was that it needed more gas than it could produce.
But even if the whole thing eventually comes down to simply increasing the mpg through supllementing  with hydroxy,  that is a good thing.
Do I think it is worth the effort ?  I'm off to cut some bigger plates,  figure it out for yourself 

Manta

[hg2]

   12 LPM at 120 amps sounds about right.This guy selling one that runs 200 amps at 15 LPM.He also carries cooling pumps and radiators for hho generators.


    http://www.hydroxiljugernut.com/

[Manta]

hg2,
What you really need to know,  and when you find out please tell the rest of us,  is will 12 litre per minute run an engine ?  It is only 0.2 litre per second.

Manta

[Manta]

Bob,
re,

Manta: the problem is Most everyone calculates the amount of Hydroxy gas needed to run a I.C. engine
like this... engine displacement x rpm = amount of Hydroxy gas needed....
....
this is OBVIOUSLY so wrong it screams at you.... but people still do it this way because that is what they know about an engine...

That's why I propose a radically different engine design.  But don't hold your breath.

Manta

P.s.  I like the feature on this site that,  as you are typing your reply,  tells you if someone has answered and gives you the chance to check before posting. Nice one.

[hg2]

 The amount of hydroxy needed to run a ICM motor is higher than most think.Just idling a small say 5 hp motor would require at least 500 LPH,an Icm car motor idling would consume about 30000 LPH and driving down the highway you're looking at over 20,000 LPH of hydroxy.

  Here's an example of what I mean.A 5 liter 4 stroke motor running at 2,000 rpm,the full motor capacity is drawn in 2 revolutions,so the total intake amount is 5 x 2,000/ 2 x 5,000 LPM.If 4%(which is the required amount of hydroxy to run a ICM motor)or 1/25th so 5,000/25=200LPM.This being said a 2 liter motor running at 3,000 rpm will need 3,000/25=120 LPM

  Here's another way to look at it.One liter of gasoline contains approx.30MJ(millajules) of energy,while hydroxy contains approx,7-8 MJ.This means that you would need approx. 4,000 liters of hydroxy gas for each liter of gasoline your car ICM motor uses.So if your ICM motor uses 6 liters of gasoline per hour driving down the highway then be prepared to be able to generate 24,000 LPH.Assuming your cell uses 2.5 watts per LPH then you would need almost 6o kw to generate this much hydroxy gas.This corresponds to about 80 hp.Which is significantly more than the amount of engine power used at most highway speeds.If you figure the alternator efficiency (~50 %) then that means you actually need 160 hp on the motor shaft to produce 24,000 LPH of hydroxy gas.

  After reading this last year even if this was only half accurate it is still not an easy accomplishment.I always reference this when I see high mileage or generator output claims.

[randy]

I think that formula is way off base, I ran a 2.6 liter ICE on just 5-6 lpm, although it wasn't drivable and didn't run smooth it ran, one thing I noticed was the roughness of the engine was in sinc with the irregular intervals of the gas passing through the bubbler, also I may have been producing more gas then stated because the cell was connected to the intake manifold, visually I'd say the output is doubled or maybe tripled when under a vacuum.

[hg2]

I think that formula is way off base, I ran a 2.6 liter ICE on just 5-6 lpm, although it wasn't drivable and didn't run smooth it ran, one thing I noticed was the roughness of the engine was in sinc with the irregular intervals of the gas passing through the bubbler, also I may have been producing more gas then stated because the cell was connected to the intake manifold, visually I'd say the output is doubled or maybe tripled when under a vacuum.

  Here's the doc that came from.There's a lot more there than I posted.Read pages 245-247.

   http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hydroxy%20Boosters.pdf

[Manta]

Randy,

Connecting the engine to the cell only may have been the reason for the non driveability.  If you had allowed some air to pass along with the hydroxy you may have avoided the bad running and still gained a saving on mpg.
Without further explanation I can't see how running a vacuum in your cell will help anything. In fact I'm surprised it didn't collapse your hoses.
Just a thought.

Manta

[hg2]

  I've read a number of threads and post on various forums regarding using vacuum to increase hydroxy production.Most have concluded the vacuum doesn't increase production.I've also tried this with different levels of vacuum with the same results of no increase.

[numberonekiwi]

  Here's another way to look at it.One liter of gasoline contains approx.30MJ(millajules) of energy,while hydroxy contains approx,7-8 MJ.This means that you would need approx. 4,000 liters of hydroxy gas for each liter of gasoline your car ICM motor uses.So if your ICM motor uses 6 liters of gasoline per hour driving down the highway then be prepared to be able to generate 24,000 LPH.

I would calculate this to 4x the amount of hydroxy 30Mj/7 or 8Mj =4.x and in my opinion it is proberly not far off

I had my theories based on the 14.7:1 mix (lets say 15:1) which have been mentioned in other posts here and the other site my 2 Ltr car will use about 1 ltr of petrol per 8 km city (depending of 91 /95 /98 octane) but average @ 50km/hr thats about 6 ltrs /hr

so 6 ltrs @15:1 mix = 90 ltrs /hr

Now both of these amounts are too low for real world use

 4000 ltrs /hr /60 =66.67 ltrs / min would be to high as the first example but I think this could be diluted at 4:1 which works out at 16 LPM now that sounds about what to aim for but all is theory as yet but I think thats what others are around at the moment

I must say I have a v6 2ltr as apposed to a sraight 4 proberly makes no diff on hydroxy but on petrol it does

[KF-Puffin1]

Thank you Randy !
12LPM at 120amps is Not un-obtainable....

i dont think 30 lpm is un-obtainable either ...........maybe @ 300 amps.

im thinking maybe a sealed nano membrain cell is going to be the future of hydro.

id like to experiment with tungston filament

[hg2]

.

I would calculate this to 4x the amount of hydroxy 30Mj/7 or 8Mj =4.x and in my opinion it is proberly not far off

I had my theories based on the 14.7:1 mix (lets say 15:1) which have been mentioned in other posts here and the other site my 2 Ltr car will use about 1 ltr of petrol per 8 km city (depending of 91 /95 /98 octane) but average @ 50km/hr thats about 6 ltrs /hr

so 6 ltrs @15:1 mix = 90 ltrs /hr

Now both of these amounts are too low for real world use

 4000 ltrs /hr /60 =66.67 ltrs / min would be to high as the first example but I think this could be diluted at 4:1 which works out at 16 LPM now that sounds about what to aim for but all is theory as yet but I think thats what others are around at the moment

I must say I have a v6 2ltr as apposed to a sraight 4 proberly makes no diff on hydroxy but on petrol it does

  The air fuel ratio for hydrogen in air is 34:1,which is a mass ratio.It means you need 34 grams(=27.776 liters)of air for each gram of hydrogen(=11.1 liters).Converted to volume ratio this is 2.5:1 because air contains 20% oxygen by volume and you need 0.5 liters of oxygen for each liter of hydrogen,therefore you need 2.5liters of air for perfect combustion.

[Bob]

You guys Arn't listening !
now Pay attention and I'll teach you a thing or two about the I.C. Engine... I'm no "Expert" but I do know engines....
...
as I stated before You do Not need to use the DISPLACEMENT of the engine to calculate the Hydroxy needs
infact YOU CANNOT use the Displacement of the engine if you are going to get a reading thats anywhere Accurate....
  the reason for this is that the only time you use CLOSE to the full displacement of the engine per revoultion is at full throttle under load.... all the rest of the time it is a very small portion of the displacement.... and its not filling the cylinder at all... its a small Puff of gas that is injected into the cylinder under a vacume, it goes in the cylinder and is ignited , it explodes and forces the engine to turn over again.......
So how can you possably calculate the needs of the engine by the volumeof its displacement?
YOU CAN'T ! .....you will get the AIR Useage if the throttle is wide open but that is all....
if the throttle is closed you will have vacume and no air will be displaced!
...
the IC engine works in a state of vacume 99.9% of the time, its designed to do that so it can SUCK the fuel into the cylinders!....  you do not need to fill the cylinder to make the cylinder Fire.... you only have to give it a small Puff of gas  and that is all you need... thats at IDLE...
a bit bigger PUFF will raise the RPM, but its still only a Puff of gas, not filling the cylinder
and your probly at 2500rpm... a bit bigger puff of gas will take you to 4000RPM....but thats only almost double the original Puff of gas when its Idleing... not 1/2 the cylinder volume...
its still a very small amount... the I.C.Engine is designed perfectly for us to use as small a volume
as Possable and still Run.... other wize your car would get Gallons to the Mile preformance instead of Miles per gallon...
...
so How do you Calcuate the needed Hydroxy gas then ? by trying it... thats the easiest way
 You could do a test on gasoline and see how much Volume of fuel-Air is used to travel a Mile
and then convert it to Hydroxy gas... but that is guessing at the fuel air Ratio on the Hydroxy gas
.... Pure Hydrogen gas can be Thinned out to over 100:1 and still explode.... but that is Not Hydroxy gas... Some have calculated that Hydroxy gas can only be thinned out about 14:1 with air before it no longer explodes because its too lean....
...
believe me when I say You cannot figure out how much Hydroxy Gas you need by the Engine Displacement
simply because you are compairing apples to orenges...  the displacement is just where the explosion occurs.... that tiny Puff of gas that turns the engine over at idle, its just contained in the displacement of the engine... a Multi cylinder engine can use even smaller Puffs of gas to get the job done than a single cyl engine... because the push from the pistons is aranged to keep the engine spinning, where on the single cyl it takes a bigger push to spin the crank 3 revoultions to get the 4th bang to keep it going......
but think Small Puffs guys.. not filling the cylinders and you'll see that the volume needed is so far less than you previously thought its not even funny....
thats WHY I say 12LPM to 15LPM is all I will need to run 100% hydroxy gas in my truck.... sure if i rev the engine to over 4,000RPM it will probly starve for fuel... but I don't run the engine that high anyway...not even shifting 3800rpm is usually as High in RPM that I allow it to go....
so I Only have to keep up with medium sized Puffs of gas.... Understand ?
if not please say so , this is crucial in your understanding on how the hydroxy system will work for you
...
Bob.......

[hg2]

  Bob I can agree with you on one point you made that the motor you described will in fact need more hho to run when under load and unthrottled.But regarding being able to run on just 12-15 LPm isn't going to work out for you.The reason I believe this is that over a year ago(and I'm still looking and trying to remember where I read it) two guys tried installing 10 generators(with a combined output of 17 LPM) on a car that had a 1.8 liter motor.using several batteries and 110vac battery chargers.Keep in mind that they weren't going to drive it because they were limited by the length of their extention cords,they were only trying to see how well the car would run.

  The best they could get was sputtering and backfires for their efforts.They also tried different timing settings and various amounts of hho(by shutting down some of the generators) to see if that would help the motor to even start.Thus proving the panacea universitys studies regarding this.Sorry if I seem to put a lot of stock into them,but I don't feel these docs are allowed to be released without some authoritative scrutiny so as not to make the  universitys staff and students look dumb by releasing totally wrong and bogus information.

  Sorry I don't share your enthusiasm on getting a car to run on 100% hydroxy.but I've read so much that says otherwise.

  Even if you do accomplish getting it to work,are you prepared to go through the expense of replacing your entire exhaust system with stainless steel(manifold included),not to mention valves and head gaskets as well.Because this will have to go hand in hand with a 100% hydroxy system.

  This by the way is only my personal opinion and can(and will) differ from other peoples finding and opinions.

[Bob]

Hay No problem you are intitled to your opinion, just as I am Mine... so No biggy !
...
You don't have to worry about the exhost system rusting out in a week just because you use Hydroxy gas
or the valves and cylinders RUSTING due to the water in th gas... that is another Myth...
the internal temputure of the engine removes all traces of moisture in the engine...
the exhost pipe on my cars are hot...so I don't expect any rust problem with that eather...
 You listen to too many Nay sayers ! you have to weed out the BS from what is realy true...
you can't believe everything that is typed out by people... heck even I make boo-boos ! HAHAHAHA
... I dunno why those boys couldn't get a engine to run on 17LPM but I know I certainly can.
...
My question to you is this.. what would it take to convince you that a car can run on 100% Hydroxy gas alone ?   you have listened to the nay sayers so long now, as to be convinced that they are right...
weather what they say is right or wrong, at this point doesn't seam to matter... as its to the point of being self propeturateing now... so what will it take to convince you? I've proven where their calculations are wrong, but you don't buy that... OK what will it take ?
Randy ran his truck on a mear 4LPM... idleing it without gasoline... and the 2.6liter engine ran...not good but it Ran.... but thats not enough to convince you, then what will ?
... you have to clean out your mind FIRST...you are BIAS toward it not working.. and nothing will convince you other wize...
forget what you've read about it Not being Possable...I know its hard to do but when You have things like Randys truck and Hydrotecs truck both running on 100% hydroxy gas its very hard to ignore...
You remember Hydrotech from the other Porn site<grin> he turned off all the gasoline and tried to run his truck on Hydroxy alone the engine ran but he couldn't realy drive it that way as it wouldn't take throttle worth a darn..he drove down the street turned around anc came back home and ended the experiment... it wasn't driveable  but it was running... this is with his HUDGE TRUCK a Monster Chevy Duely and Vortech V8 ... and he had something like 8 or 12LPM is all being pumped into the engine...
...to me its OBVIOVIOUS that he didn't have enough Hydroxy gas to make it work quite yet... and he agreed... but it ran enough to get him to the end of the block and back on Pure Hydroxy gas alone.
( I know all this because I was trading emails with him frequantly at the time, his posts missed allot )  ... then the word got out that he got over 90mpg and he dropped out of sight because he had people calling him all the time wanting him to fix their car... even at 3:00am... he was so mad he was spitting spiders ! .... thats why you havn't seen or hurd from him lately !...not because it doesn't work.
 Randy Idled his truck only... he made sure there was no gas in the carberator to mess up the test....
he put the output tube in the throat of the carb and hit the starter and it fired up.... and ran
with no gasoline !
 anyone can do that if they have enough LPM output, its not a trick. a mear 2LPM ain't going to to it in most cases though.... and if you open the throttle it will starve for fuel and die...
thats because there is not enough Hydroxy gas...
 remember we are messing in the relm of less than 20LPM... that ain't very much hydroxy gas per second as Manta pointed out  so running at full throttle is Not possable just yet....
...
 I don't know for a fact that I can run my truck on 12LPM to 15LPM on 100% hydroxy gas... I'm guessing
thats all, just guessing, but its an educated guess taking in allot of things into consideration.
...
its going to depend on the volume of Hydroxygas I have available weather I can rev the engine to a driveable RPM range or not... and I consider 4000RPM drive-able  but with a load that may change things considerably... I don't know yet !
...
...
When I was getting started into this stuff I read Positive and negitive posts where ever I could find them... 99.9% of the  Studies and TV programs the so called SMART People were so stupid in their assumptions that it made me mad !... even the Mythbusters screwed it up so bad it wasn't funny
but they did goof around and stuff the hose from a hydrogen bottle into the throat of the carb and start the V8 with no problem.... their conclusion was "Busted" it can't be done !
they had one tiny Hydroxy cell that they bought from some shyster on the web and tried to run a big V8 on that small low output cell... well of corse it didn't work ! DUH ! I bet it wouldn't even change their gas milage if used properly because it was just too small !
...
negitive BS is all around us all the time because they think their smarter than the rest of us !
and they will prove it by their flawed reasoning and information... think it through and you can see through the smoke and mirrors!
....
if running a B&S 3.5HP engine on Pure Hydroxy gas will convince you... I'll do it...because I think I have enough Output for that now....
I'll have to go get the motor but thats no biggy , its at the ranch ! HAHAHAHA
...
to each their own....FWIW.
Bob........

[hg2]

  Bob I think you may have misunderstood me a little.The folks at the various universitys I spoke of were merely stating what they felt and researched of what it would take to run a vehicle on 1oo % hydroxy.IMO they weren't saying it couldn't be done just that it wasn't going to be an easy road to get there.I don't know if you've taken the time to look over the doc they published but there's some really good helpful stuff to look at and learn.

  I feel the same way as you that I sure it can be accomplished I have no doubt of that.But you have to remember we're all just another bunch words from who knows where and more importantly who knows who.Heck even I could(hypothetically speaking of course)some guy doing life in prison or some mental ward with a good enough education to make sense of what we do here.And everything that I say could be false and deceiving.Please don't confuse this with me trying to say everyone here is a lier,because that's not the point I'm trying to make here.We can say and make statements without anyone having any way to verify our claims that we have solved all the problems and hurdles regarding the use of 100 % hydroxy to power a vehicle.After all we're all just some sentences and paragraphs from really just about anyone from from all walks of life,are we not?

  I don't take any stock in anyones claims about anything unless they can actually show me with my own eyes.I'm sure you're the same way,because if we didn't do that every con man in the country could have their way with us.

  So that being said if you can get that grassmuncher you mentioned running on 100 % hydroxy and on a vid then my hat will surely be off to you complete with a bow.

  So please don't think that I'm in bed with the naysayers because nothing could be further from the truth,I'm pro hho all the way.But in the last year and a half I've spent hundreds of hours reading all the claims,views,opinions from hundreds of posts,treads and docs that I could find.I keep an open mind for all of it,this is how one learns,how we 've all learned all our lives.Sorry if my seeing is believing philosophy seems biased to you but it's served me well all my and rarely failed me.


               Rusty

 

[Manta]

What we need to do is duplicate LtCFishers 93 mpg. If we can get that,  who really needs 100% ?

And we should be able to do it as it has already been done,  hasn't it ?

So,  the second biggest question is,  why has no one else done it ?

Manta

[Bob]

OK Rusty...
I understand where your comeing from. but there is a point where you have to trust someone !
I admit...I am probly the most gullable individual you'll ever meet !  If some one tells me they ran a engine on Hydroxy gas alone I believe it... because I think , why would they lie ?  just to look good in the eyes of the others on the forum ? thats hardly enough reason...but no doubt some people do do that...  but we have comunicated enough with all these guys to Know their not pulling our leg...
they believe it if nothing else... now Obviously they can be mistaken but thats not very likely !
I give each of you guys out there allot of credit... I figure your as smart as I am or smarter...
you just havn't seen what I've seen or you'ed see things the way I do, and conversly I trust what you say for the same reason unless it conflicts with what I KNOW to be true...
I had my cell running realy good one time when I came home  and I wanted to see if the truck would run on the hydroxy gas alone... so I thought I'ed pull the fuel pump fuze and then start the engine.. that would  prove it could run on Hydroxy gas alone , and also tell me how much more Hydroxy gas I would need.... but unfortionately it would Not start...at all, it tried a few times but it never would catch
and I figure I only had about 3LPM at the time so I desided that that was why.... not enough Hydroxy gas....
Ok... Now I have a Challenge... I'll get the B&S 3.5Hp to run on 100% hydroxy gas...
I don't have a video camara and won't bother buying one just for that ... but if I can't get it to run on 100% hydroxy gas I promice I'll tell you that too ! ... I can't serve my fellow man's need for Knowledge by lieing , all that does is muddy the water <GRIN>
....
so give me some time and I'll do just that ! <GRIN>
...I might have to run the hydroxy cell off the welder to get enough output, but it will indeed tell us allot if I can do it !...
...
Bob........


 

[hg2]

  Bob there's one thing I do know for sure that you're one of the worlds greatest undiscovered philosophers.Your postings all come like a good shot of scotch,straight up with nothing but the true good essence,not needing anything to compliment it.And I guess you're right you have to trust some people or we may miss what we're seeking altogether.And in the case of your writings being so down to earth it would stand to reason that you're definitely the real McCoy.

     Thanks for the chat it was well worth all the typing.

                                                                              Rusty

[Bob]

Ahh now stop !, Your gunn'amake me Blush !  HAHAHAHA
Getting deep in here thats fer sure !
....
anyway I'll post a new thred on  the Useing Hydroxy generators when I get some info on making the O'l
Briggs and Stratton 3.5Hp working.... it should give us some reliable info if nothing else...
as well as the running  charastics, weather the carb is needed or not, that sort'a thing !
it will be interesting indeed !
...been thinking about it all morning... trying to figure out how to go about it....
think I'll use the smack booster and hit it with a bunch of amps HHAHAHHA ! see if thats enough Hydroxy gas.... , start the hydroxy gen and then give it a shot of quick start and give it a yank ...that should do the trick... ... I'll have to take off the carb because its part of the gastank on that thing I think....so I can just use a tube heheheheh
...
 I do know I can just put the hose in the intake port and tape it closed and it will run on that
but I'ed like it a bit more repeatable than that and tape will melt  ! HAHAHAHAHAHHA
...
what ever ...I'll work on it ! HA !
...
thanks fer the compliments but they are a bit exuberant on this o'l boy hahahahha !
...
Bob......

[Pilot Guy]

Hi guys,

For what it's worth....
I have filled a large ballon with around 12 liters of hydroxy gas and idled my 4 liter Ford Ranger engine with the fuel system turned off for 1 minute and 8 seconds. If you don't believe my results then either try it your self or send me a private email request and if you are in San Diego County I can meet up with you and personally show you how my truck can run on Hydroxy alone up to 1200 RPM.

The Pilot Guy

[candyman55]

Way to go pilot guy, I never had any doubt that it can work, If we can run engines on natural gas, and propane. I am sure we will sooner or later get em to run on HHO. BTW I do make it to San Diego once in a while. Next time I'll look you up. Good Job

[hg2]

Hi guys,

For what it's worth....
I have filled a large balloon with around 12 liters of hydroxy gas and idled my 4 liter Ford Ranger engine with the fuel system turned off for 1 minute and 8 seconds. If you don't believe my results then either try it your self or send me a private email request and if you are in San Diego County I can meet up with you and personally show you how my truck can run on Hydroxy alone up to 1200 RPM.

The Pilot Guy

   Pilot guy I'd like to try this and have a couple of questions for you before I do.First the balloon you used approx. how large a diameter do you think it was to hold 12 liters of hho.Also how did you introduce it to the motor?Did you just stretch the balloon over the intake and then start the motor?And when you said you shut the fuel off for the duration mentioned how was that done?

  Sorry for all the Q & A but this sounds very interesting and would answer questions I have regarding the amount of hho it takes to run a motor on just hho.


                     Thanks

                                           Rusty

[Bob]

HAY ! its Pilot Guy ! About time you found us buddy ! HAHAHAHAHA
welcome to the Hydroxy Hut !...you'll find no SPAM or Porno here !
...
You can post your Pics Here Pilot Guy ...and Please do !...
Now I want to do some calculations on your Balloon exp to see how close my estimates are on running my truck ! THANK YOU FOR THAT it will help allot !
...
Bob....

[Bob]

Ummm Man I dunno what I did to those figures but it can't be right....so I'll go about it another way......
...
I figured that Pilot guys balloon test  shows that it takes 12LPM to idle his 4Liter truck.
halfing that gets 6LPM for a 2liter truck. for idleing
half it again to get 3LPM for 1Liter displacement.... to idle...
...
so to idle my 2.5liter toyota it will take 2.5x3LPM=7.5LPM  to idle my pickup.
asumeing Pilot Guys Idle was set at 800rpm we can guesstimate Hydroxy gas useage not under a load....
...2x800=1600RPM...2x7.5=15LPM
...2x1600=3200rpm 2x15=30LPM...
which is about double my original estimates !
...but still obtainable!

 So useing Pilot Guys results it will take me 30LPM to drive my truck on 100% hydroxy gas!
... However I am sure that can be leaned out much more than that !
Hydrogen and Hydroxy gas both will still ignite even being so rich that it would flood a gasoline engine....but Hydrogen and Hydroxy gas just keeps on going.... so its possable that his mixture was 30 times richer than it needed to be to run the engine ...and indeed I expect that is the case unless he made up some valve to adjust the flow of the balloon into the engine and adjusted it as lean as it could possably go. which I doubt as it would have taken quite a few trial runs to accomplish that task
... How about it Pilot Guy... what did ya DO ?
thats very incurrageing info ya gave us !
THANK YOU !

Bob............