if your running an older Auto... carberated....

[Bob]

if your running an older carberated automobile you might give some serious thought
to making something like this....
I have fiddled with gasoline vaporization extensively over my life and have discovered that it does INDEED WORK.... the problem is keeping it Vaporized.... for me anyway.
...it takes a good Heat riser to make one of these things work.... believe me I know!
 however you can achieve 80mpg or better! I got that much from a copper coil on a manifold
and a needle valve controlled by a rod through the dash !  Super simple! but at the time I was over looking the heat riser.... I now know better ! you must keep the intake air above 110 deg in order to keep the fuel vapor vaporized!
.... the picture below shows a Pogue carburetor... one designed to actually turn the gasoline into vapor... not a mist of droplets
they boast of a 200mpg  achievement  I myself would be happy with 100mpg! LOL
...
Bob....

[Bob]

in this carberator (above) the exhaust gasses were used to Heat the coils of tubing
in which the gasoline traveled before being emitted into the air flow of the intake.
...
 much simplier methods can be achieved...  a copper coil around an exhaust pipe
will be plenty of heat to vaporize the gasoline.
...
 my latest method was to wrap a long length of copper tubing around the exhaust headder pipe and  add a large heat riser to the other side of the engine
 I started the truck on a needle valve of raw gas... which I pre set to give me idle when it was cold.... it worked quite well.
once the engine had warmed up it started running too rich because it was getting vapor as well as raw gasoline, so I had to turn off the idle curcuit. then the engine ran super smooth .... best I ever hurt that engine sound! (318v8 Dodge)  I checked the tempitures and everything seamed OK  I was getting 115~120 deg from my heat riser off the other exhaust pipe on the other side of the engine... so I tried to drive it just using a needle valve on a rod through the dash....  as expected , I had to increase the amount of vapor it was getting by opening up the vapor valve....for more RPM... as the RPM increased however the intake temperature started to drop.... and as I got about a block away from the house it was obviously running on half vapor and half raw gasoline....
I parked and let it warm back up, turned around and went back to the house.... by then it was staggering again... it had cooled down too much to maintain the vapor state.
....
 All it needed was a better heat riser ! and I am sure it would have ran on pure vapor !
 How many MPG's I would have gotten is unknown but I have no doubt it would have been over 100mpg ! ... possibly over 200 mpg to as much as 400mpg as reported by some vaporizer experimenters .

 However... I can't do this on a fuel injected engine ( I don't think anyway)
and my Toyota R22 is F.E.  the old Dodge I was experimenting on is still out there
and I have built a Wood burner for it ... that I have yet to test completely.
so its more or less in a different configuration now!.
...
I KNOW that fuel vaporization really does WORK... you can get as much as 6 times as much MPG that you are getting now... usually more... but that is the expansion rate of gasoline when it turns to vapor... 6 times the expansion !
 vapor retains its explosive power as normal gasoline with only a slight drop in HP due to the Leanness of the fuel load.... rich'en it up a bit and it would be the same!
....
once a good solid vapor "Maker" is obtained, and a heat riser that will maintain the needed 110deg no matter what the RPM is... you can put on a propaine carberator and  adjust the main flow for the perfect blend of air and vapor and you will not have to fiddle with a needle valve !
....
 the ground work has been done... by ME and many others... all it takes now is for some fella to finish the task....
 I have taken way too long to "Get around to it"  so Please feel free to take over !
...
Bob

[janmarsh]

Bob, Keeping the blowlamp design in mind always helps me on this subject !  Having a small quanity of fuel under pressure is obviously required.


Belated Happy New Year to you & the rest of the guys !

                                                Marshall.

http://medlem.spray.se/blowlamp/Function/function.htm

[Bob]

funny you should mention the blowlamp... or Blow torch as I called it...because I have been looking for my old one for a few weeks now... I can't seam to find it and I hope I didn't leave it at the old place ! it was a antique ! ... it ran on gasoline and had a filler cap/pump arrangement... took me a day or two to get the old pump working but after I replaced the leather washer in the pump it worked fine...  my blow torch had a pan under the burner for lighting and it was a very reliable tool ! I used it quite often... in fact that's why I was looking for it, I got a job for it! LOL
I guess I'll have to use the propane torch for now though!
...
I had no idea that they could reach 2000degrees though man that's HOT ! ...
...
running your car on vaporized gasoline isn't quite as easy as a few pumps and light it ! but it does certainly work !
 Myself I achieved 80mpg in my ford Pinto back in the 1980's early 1990's  I made 3 or 4 vaporizers 2 were hot water powered and 2 were ran directly off the exhaust manifold for the heat...
 in order to get the fuel to vaporize using  the water in the engine block I had to change the thermostat to the hottest one I could find (115deg.) but it did vaporize the gasoline very well no droplets of gas at all sprayed out... just vapor!
on that one I followed instructions my brother in law gave me ...where he found them I am not sure. but the guy had a ford pinto just like mine and he was calming 120mpg !
so I copied everything he did... but unknown to me the bottom half of my heat riser on the pinto was missing... so I was doomed to failure from the start! ... the most I ever got with the pinto was 80mpg... but it was a fairly consistent 80mpg... once the summer hit and the weather was warm...  
I found if I wrapped everything in insulation and then wrapped tinfoil around that it helped a bunch.... almost all the staggering went away just by insulation!
...however the original guy's plans said that he lived in Seattle and had no hills to speak of where he drove back and forth to work.... I had a Mt. pass to traverse every day!
.. after a few months of having to fight the needle valve I just gave up and ran the valve in the richest setting so I wouldn't have to keep playing with it.... my gas mileage went down to 40mpg to 45mpg or so.... not bad when the stock pinto got 22mpg !
 I ran it like that for a few months and then the cold weather set in... my gas mileage dropped to 15mpg or so and I took the unit off !
...
 A patented design of fuel vaporization that I have always Loved was simply a box over the exhaust pipe and  a float and needle valve  in the box and a fuel line to it...
 from the top of the box was a pipe to the air cleaner  it had a butterfly valve in there that was controlled by the driver.... that's all there was to it he got over 400MPG !
the auto was an old Ford model A with an up draft carburetor on it.
many people tried to copy it and failed... I am not sure why except to say that the vapor
in the box would pressurize the gas line and shut off the fuel because  those old mechanical fuel pumps could not pump much pressure ! they had rubber flapper valves in them and they stuck all the time!... so today you'd need a fuel pressure regulator to make up for the Older Ford Fuel pump that just happened to stop working at anything over 4psi  LOL
....
the problem with the box around the exhaust pipe idea is the gasoline in it.... when the temperature rises up enough to vaporize the gasoline , ALL the gasoline in the box will vaporize.... that will open the float valve and put in more fuel to be vaporized...
so you can see the problem... unless you have some way of controlling the amount of fuel going into the box when its hot it will keep dumping in fuel till hell freezes over !
... that didn't happen to the inventor.... why  I have no idea but I suspect it was the ford fuel pump that saved him!
 the box is open at the top to the hose or Pipe that goes to the air cleaner so pressure
could not build up in the box... the engine simply drew all the vapor it needed from the box as it ran he controlled how much vapor it got by the butterfly valve near the air cleaner.
...
 its either the fuel pump he used OR the exhaust wasn't hot enough to ever vaporize ALL the gas in the box... just sort of an Ambient heater that allowed gasoline to vaporize when it got close to it...  this is quite likely as well
how he kept the vaporized gasoline in its vapor state all the time even while drawing in large quantities of outside air isn't mentioned at all!  (and that's the part I have trouble with!)  it is a very very old patent but it is a very simple , down to basics design
...
  I am wondering if I could feed vaporized gasoline into the fuel injectors could I get it to work on my R22 FIE ... more than likely it would run way too lean to even RUN!
simply because the volume of vaporized gasoline is much larger than un vaporized gasoline
like 600 times bigger... this means 1/600th of the gasoline needed would be getting into the cylinders to run it.... and I seriously doubt it would even run! ...
 it would be an interesting experiment though! ... I could make a exhaust heated vaporizer and a bigger hot air riser for the intake (its thermostatically controlled on that truck) ....but instead of trying to lean out the gasoline like I have been doing with the Hydroxy generators I'd have to find a way to Richen it up ! LOL
... but if there is a chance for 200mpg I think it would be worth trying!
...
what do you guys think ? could I just plug vaporized gasoline into the injectors and get the thing to run
...
Bob.......

[Manta]

Bob,

I need to ponder on this one for a while.


Janmarsh,

All the best to you marshall,

Hope you had a good break.

Dave
(Manta)

[Weapon_R]

Bob

Glad you brought this up.
Finally someone else has seen the way. I have been looking at this for a while. I believe its superior to hho.
Here is why. If you are using this system it works well with a fuel injected system.
Pull the fuel pump fuse and feed vapor via intake. This will not trigger the engine check light.
Car runs perfectly and takes nothing from the engine. Awesome!
One downside is that the additives (added to prevent this type of thing) in the gasoline will gunk up the vaporizer.

[Bob]

Manta...
Being the skeptic that you are  (grin) I'll give you some of the detractors ideas that they have against  fuel vaporization...  just because I KNOW you'll be thinking along those lines... and rightly so !  that way we can get down to the meat of the ishue faster !
 LOL
....
first off they say that you can only get so many BTU's out of a given amount of gasoline
and the way the cars are now they do a fairly good job of milking out as much work as possible for every little BTU they can get!...
but this view point forgets about expanding the VOLUME of gasoline as much as 600 times
does it also expand the BTU ability along with it or not?  
and who is to say that turning gasoline to vapor allows the engine to run on much less BTU's than normal ? (which I am sure is the case)
....
Another thing they say is that turning the gasoline to vapor then burning it in the engine
will make an OVERLY LEAN fuel air mixture and harm the engine....
 this may not be far from the truth, as when I have ran vapor the few times I have I did notice a color change on my spark plugs.... however the engine did not over heat
...
 the people that are for Fuel vaporization point to the early Jet engines as a good example of vaporization.... at first Jet engines ate so much fuel as to make them almost useless ! however when they started vaporizing the fuel it stretched the fuel so much that it made the jet engine a viable engine... they have been vaporizing jet fuel in Jet engines from shortly after the jet engine was invented... they did this to make it run farther on the fuel it had.... the same thing we plan on doing for the automobile ...more mileage .... and the jet engine had been doing it for decades now as a way to stretch every drop of fuel they have.
  so why don't we use this method in our cars today ?    GOOD QUESTION! its old technology! ....and it definitely works.... but you won't see it on new cars because it does work!
....
  Its important to understand that when you turn gasoline into vapor by heat and expand it 600 times you loose some of its explosive ability.... approximately 15%~20% so there is INDEED a slight drop in Horse power.... although I did not notice a lack of power in my Ford Pinto when I got the 80mpg. if anything if felt like there was more power not less
but that is probably because of the smoothness of the engine ...that pinto never ran so good as when it ran on vapor! LOL
...
now when you expand the gasoline to vapor and get 600 times more fuel for the same buck
you also loose some because it takes MORE vapor to run the engine....
not by the standards of taking the same amount of gasoline mist that is in the cylinder and expanding it to vapor , you have allot of vapor there you won't need now.... but
by running my car on the needle valve on vapor and on raw gasoline  I found that I had to have the needle valve open almost 2 times as much as with raw gas.... this is because it is EXPANDED and it takes more of it to make up the same amount.
 you still come out with a gain over all because it expands so far i.e. 600 times the normal volume when you vaporize gasoline.... I expect that is why some guys clam 400mpg
and 200mpg because they are expanding the gas at 600 times but it re-condenses so extremely fast that it is very hard to get it into the cylinder and have it still be vapor and not droplets !  this is where having hot air going into the intake is so important! it keeps the vapor in a vapor state....
....
 before I forget, the major argument against vaporization is that the efficiency of an engine is the heat in to the heat out.... in other words cold air in , hot air out and its more efficient than hot air in and hotter air out....
 and this is very true... but we are not trying to make a 1000hp dragster here we are trying to stretch the gas as much as possible.... who cares if its less efficient ? as long as it gets 200mpg who cares if its "Efficient" or not because the temp in and temp out are closer together... and you loose 20% of the HP in the process ?  I certainly would give up 20% of my HP for 200MPG ...any day !
...
so that's about it
 Form your own conclusions as I know you will, and tell me what you come up with as I value your opinion allot !
...
 I don't Want you to agree with me for the sake of agreeing <GRIN>
...
I believe when all is said and done that 400mpg can be obtained  from fuel vaporization
I say this mainly because that is what the old patent  with the box around the exhaust pipe calmed that he got.... I think his unit worked and worked well.... it is a shame however that nobody has ever been able to replicate his unit.... why I don't know
but I have my suspicions. hehehehhe

...
something to think about is "Leanness" of the fuel air Ratio...a normal car runs around 10:1 to 14:1 in air to fuel ratio... gasoline will still Ignite and explode as lean as 20:1... but any leaner and it gets harder and harder to ignite it. with the difficulty of ignition starting around 18:1....
... now Vapor is a different story all together. 25:1 to as much as 28:1 will still ignite
... this is VAPOR not atomized gasoline... there is a big difference!
... if we can run a car engine at 28:1 fuel to air ratio Plus expand the gasoline 600 times so you have that much more gasoline in your tank...what kind of MPG's do you think we could get ?.... its a 2 fold gain that is what is so neat about it !
 that is Why the figures vary so wildly on clams of MPG

...
Bob....

[Bob]

Weapon-R
 
 I was not aware of any "stuff" in the gasoline that would make it "Gunk Up" but it would not surprise me in the least!
  the extensive use of Alchol however only helps the gasoline to vaporise easier as it has a lower vaporization temp than raw gasoline...
....
 the coil or LOOPS of copper tubing I used on the ford Pinto's exhaust manifold I used or had it in place for over 2 years.... ran the vaporizer in summer mainly
it rattled around under the heat shield for a long time and never did spring a leak... and I never noticed any gunk formation inside the tube but that doesn't mean much ! LOL
...
 I think by injecting the Vaporized gasoline into the fuel line that feeds the injectors
you'd get NOTHING because its going to take about 2 times the volume they normally give out in order to run on vapor..... I think anyway!
which means a new chip or something in the electronic fuel injection to lengthen out the time the injector is on! ... if we could do that its easy as Pie to change to vapor!

... still have to have hotter air into the intake to keep it vaporized... at least 110 deg
and then you have it.
 the vaporizer could be exhaust powered or electric or what ever as long as it can maintain 110deg it will vaporize the gas
....
completely off the subject but a guy made a electric Vaporizer one time by using a electric motor and a squirrel cage blower half submerged in gasoline... this wasn't actually a VAPORIZER just a real real good atomizer... he got over 124MPG with his set up and tried to market it, and they (the big oil companies) squashed him like a bug.
... one thing for sure ...if you do make a vaporizer give the plans away don't try to sell it and get rich on it because then your a prime target!.... Pogue had the same problem and there are many others in the dirty laundry list!
...
Bob.....


 

[Weapon_R]

Bob

Here is an experiment for persons to try. Take a cotton rag and wet it in gasoline.
Then bunch up the rag and stuff the rag into the intake manifold.
You could also lightly spray gas on the air filter.
Disconnect the fuel pump and try starting the vehicle which should start.
300+ mpg is easily attainable using a wicking material like thick cotton dipped at
one end in gasoline so the gas makes its way up the material and is vaporized.
This method can also be used to vaporise water.

Bob what type of gasoline were you using with your vaporizer?

That illustration is excellent. I find you design looks very close to my own.
I have not built the unit as yet but its in the works.
Few things I want to point out.
Vaporized gasoline burns much cooler. In fact if fuel is leaned beyond 20:1 the result is a much cooler burning mixture.
This is contraty to what we have been told.
Vaporized gas can also be used to supplement gas in an ice similar to hho.

[Bob]

humm never thought about using it as a "Suppliment" to normal gasoline LOL
...
I ran regular... leaded gasoline at the time... now they don't have leaded gas
until relitively recently the old Dodge had the vaporizer on it and I was using unleaded regular gasoline in it... it worked great when the truck was just sitting there not moving
... it smoothed out, quieted down and just purred along nicely
but try to move anywhere and it started breaking down the vapor back into normal gasoline
... I don't think it was in the Vaporizer itself as I had almost 25feet of 3/8"copper tubing wrapped around the 2.25" exhaust pipe near the exhaust headder pipe connection
I covered it with tin foil...
 I fed the bottom end of the coil with gasoline from my electric fuel pump...
I think I had a check valve on that end as well but I'm not positive ...its a good idea at any rate! ...  so the vaporizer was large enough to supply 2 or 3 trucks with vapor !
so I don't think it was the vaporizer running out of capacity... I am almost certain it was the cold air entering the intake, that caused the vapor to re-condense...
 its easy to tell if its re-condenseing simply because the engine starts to run crapy misses and staggers because of a too lean condition. 

...
 Yes in many ways the Gasoline vaporization method can and may over shadow the Hydroxy gas method. the gains are higher by far... the only thing that will save Hydroxy gas is getting the vehicle to run on 100% Hydroxy gas ...so no gasoline is needed at all  THEN it will be by far better than gasoline vapor! <GRIN>
 ...

 Thinking about making a vaporizer as a SUPPLIMENTAL unit could be interesting indeed!
I've alwayse tackeled  it as 100% vapor ...not an additive... but there is no reason why you couldn't do it that way... in fact it may well be far easier to accomplish!
...
 However in order to do that you need to reduce the raw gasoline the engine is running on normially... just like in Hydroxy gas!   
 if I leaned out my little pickup to barely run normially you know....stagger around type lean... then add a vaporizer to make up the difference the gains should be significant!
...
...
My truck has a Long "Snorkel" intake tube from the air cleaner to the intake horn
and it would be easy to Pipe in a "vapor En richer" to the intake.
however the intake on my truck is vurtually un heated.... no hot air riser to speak of... it has one but its rather pathetic! LOL
...
so in hansing the hot air riser and adding a Vaporizer  shouldn't be all that dificult!
...
 I wonder if you could use a Randy cell to BOIL gasoline ?
boiled gasoline = vaporized gas !

 or perhaps a Coffee cup warmer hooked to 12vdc would heat up enough to make vapor ?
or a heater coil.... obviously
...
 its an interesting idea  I may have to test it !
...
Bob...
 

[Bob]

I've been thinking of a Smaller "Supplemental Vaporizer" for gasoline vaporization
and I think the best approach would be a metal box that can be sealed air tight
an electric heating coil or two, a float valve (brass w/brass float) and a gas line fitting
and a larger hose to the intake.
the idea is not to boil away all the gasoline in the box but keep it boiling all the time
as vapor is used up fresh gas will be added into the can so a level of gasoline will be maintained.
... Plumbing the box would be simple... a gas line to supply gasoline and a larger hose to take the vapor to the intake of the engine.
...
Assuming all parts and hoses are insulated and covered with tin-foil real good, vapor should remain in the vapor state till the intake manifold or Hose... at that point the intake air has to be 110 degrees or more to keep the vapor in its vapor state !
 it all hinges on the intake air being 110 deg or more other wise the vapor will "Flash condense" and not be vapor any more and you've lost what you have gained!
... if you consider that doing this to my toyota truck (R-22 EFEI,5 spd 2wd) the only real obstical is the "heat riser" ...
 My experience on my Dodge's heat riser showed me a good way to gather allot of hot air
by clamping copper tubing on to the exhaust pipe...with large hose clamps and funneling up the hot air from these tubes to the intake....
...
if you can manage to keep the vapor in the vapor state all the time in all driving conditions including winter travel... then there is no reason to run any Raw gas any longer... but that's another problem, throttling vapor!
...
if I did this to my truck and rationed back the raw gasoline the injectors are squirting into the engine all the time I could see a large gain in MPG
...
...
...
 Cold vapor is another method as Weapon-R mentioned... but its not as efficient as heated
however it may cure the heat riser problem completely !
...
 I was thinking a large box in the back of my truck with about 20 cooler pads in it
 soaking up gasoline that is in the bottom of the box (Float level controlled )
drawing air off the top of the cooler pads would be giving you vapor so you could pipe that right to the intake...just remove the air filter and use the box as your air-filter!
 ... you could seal the box and add aquarium air stones to help bubble the gasoline by drawing air through the gasoline ...
if you went crazy with that idea you could do away with the cooler pads! LOL
 I don't know if you could get ENOUGH vapor using the COLD method but you Should be able to ...at least on hot summer days! LOL
...
Bob....

[janmarsh]

Bob,  I've thought of using one of those dip in your coffee mug heater elements to supply the vapourising heat.   The type that plug in to your lighter socket.

                                                              http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-HOT-WATER-HEATER-KETTLE-ELEMENT-NEW-TEA-COFFEE-VOLT-/370532066790?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Touring_Travel&hash=item56456ea5e6

[Bob]

great idea Marshal ! ...
some of those if not all however are thermostatically controlled and will just heat the water to just below the boiling point...
and I also think your going to need more volume than a little heating element can make.
but I can well be wrong on that !
...
when heating something like gasoline to the vaporizing point  I think most of you would find it very interesting ! the gasoline will absorb the heat to the point of vaporization
and it will do it very well up to that point but once it "Flashes into vapor" (and it does this in nano-seconds....very fast) the heat the vapor absorbs is done so very very slowly after that... therefor getting vapor Hotter than the vaporization point is not an easy task, it takes a bunch of heat and time to do so !  and there is no need to get the vapor HOTTER than the point of vaporization either. except as a way to keep it in the vapor state.


Another major problem that I ran into with gasoline vaporization is the "icing effect."
You can have Icing of a carburetor on a hot summer day if the conditions are just right
and the same thing goes for Vapor in fact it is easier for Vapor to cause Icing than raw gasoline ... anytime you lower atmospheric pressure you lower the temperature this is a known law  and it applies to vaporizers as well...

so if you have a -20.lb intake vacuum pressure  and you put your Hot vapor into that manifold it will instantaneously drop temperature... and re condense and you loose your vapor just by entering a vacuum.
...
 its very possible that this is the main reason that Automakers have abandoned vaporizers.
...
 
 THIS IS A MAJOR problem  ! and will make or break a vaporizer system.
 I tried to super heat the vapor on the Dodge to get over this temperature drop... and it worked fine at Idle but not at 3000RPM
...
 this problem makes some engines better for vaporization than others... as I have worked on many engines and have noticed a running vacuum pressure from as little as -8 lbs to as much as -20.lbs
...

so  Anyone thinking or working on Gasoline vaporization needs to consider the vacuum of the engine ... it can and Will undo all your hard work before the vapor gets to the cylinder!
...
Bob....

[Manta]

Bob,

...although I did not notice a lack of power in my Ford Pinto when I got the 80mpg. if anything if felt like there was more power not less...

So my question has to be,  why don't you still use this system ?


Dave
(Manta)

[janmarsh]

Ultrasonic foggers !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzgqxEU0sVc

[janmarsh]

No end to my imagination........... I cannot see any of those tiny units producing sufficient fog.  Something like this may do it...... HaHa !

                              http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300618314143?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3984.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D300618314143%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

[Bob]

that's easy Manta ! I was sick of fighting the car every time I tried to go somewhere so I took it off !
 the way it was arranged you had to get the car running, that part was easy ... open the gas valve that filled the coil and then went into the carberator.... start the car and wait for it to warm up.... at which time it started running like crap because it was way too rich.... and all the gas in the coil was being forced into the carberator so it was flooding... at the first sign of blubbering I shut off the gas valve going to the engine
this took a few minutes to clear out and I usually reved it up a bit to keep it from dieing.... it would then smooth out and I had to be quick on the valve or it would die at that point... when it smoothed out I'ed open the valve to 1/4 turn ( I had it marked in verious segments) then the car was ready to go.... on the pinto I could leave the valve at 1/4 turn open till I reached the highway infront of the trailer park where I lived at the time... if I was light on the throttle I could shift up to 3rd then open the valve about 1/8 turn more.... then shift into 4th and drive to town 50 miles away.
at the base of the mountian pass I usually opened the valve to 1/2 turn open  I was usually doing 55 to 60mph at that point but the hill was very steep !  once I crested the peak I cut the valve back down to 1/4 open till I reached the freeway because it was about 10 miles of down hill.  for crusing down the freeway I usually had the valve set at somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 turns open.... it was totally dependant on the tempiture outside.... if it was really cold I simply left the valve open about 1~1.5 turns and left it that way and it ran like normial... most of the time anyway.
...
 it was a pain in the butt to have to adjust the valve all the time and if you wanted to pass someone chances were that it would start staggering about the time you got along side them.... very anoying!
it was very obvious to me that a automatic system was needed so I aquired a propane carberator and put it on the car .... it ran so rich that I could not use it
and I never did get the correct jets for the carb... I still have it somewhere!
...
 I knew at the time that 80mpg was barely in the running because the guy that made his system was getting 129MPG in Seattle all the time on the same car although his was a newer one than mine and less tore up ! LOL
he also said all he had to do was set his valve at 1/4 turn and drive like normal
 My unit did not do that because I was not driving on flat land !
...
after about 2 years of fighting it all the time I finally gave up and took it all off
... the main reason was because the wife was wanting to drive the car  while I wanted to stay home ... we switched role's and she went to work at J.C. Penneys in Stead Nv. and I stayed home and raised the Kid ...for a while anyway !
 I tried to teach her how to use the vaporizer but she is about as mechanically inclined as a soap dish. so I just made it work the way it was supposed to and she was all smiles!
 LOL
...
depending on WHERE you have to drive and the conditions of it there is a possiblity that
you could do like the guy in Seattle and just leave the valve at 1/4 turn open and drive like normal....  I never had that opertunity as we alwayse had Major hills to traverse and bad weather in the winter to boot !
and when its -25 deg out there the last thing you want is to have to fight your car to go somewhere !

 I believe it can be done much better now and easier  with out the fighting !
...
but I suppose that remains to be proven ! LOL
...
Bob....

 

[Bob]

Marshal...
 yah but thats not VAPOR its just making very fine droplets.... a FOG there is a big diference between FOG and vapor ! with FOG you don't have to worry about heat, but you also don't get the EXPANSION of the gas when it goes into Vapor...this is where your big savings are at...
...
 making a better carberator by using Pizo electric Foggers has been done and they do indeed work well but the gain is minimal usually about 5 to 10 mpg is all.
( for a older chevy S10 it would be worth it sense they rairly got above 12 mpg)
but an electric motor with a wheel on it to spin in a vat of gas will atomize gas far better than any carberator.... but the carberators of today do indeed do a fairly good job of atomization.... so you can only gain at max about 15~25% in gas milage that way.
....
Vaporization on the other hand means you can gain 600 times more MPG if everything is perfect... just because gasoline expands 600 times when it goes into vapor form
in reality you won't get all that 600 times because of a few factors but at least half of that is possible !  if your getting 20mpg now and you get a vaporizer system working perfectly and get 300 times the normal mileage that is near 600MPG !
 this almost sounds abserd ! but there have been clames of 400mpg with verious vaporizers out there....  Personally I don't know if I believe it or not. <GRIN>
...
 I personally think you stand a real GOOD chance of getting 200MPG however!
...something I have yet to obtain !
...
Bob....
 

[Bob]

My first Vaporizer was very simple it consisted of a 2" pipe with 2"x3/4" bell reducers on each end....  inside the large pipe was a coil of copper tubing... this tubing stuck through the side of the pipe and was soldered there to make it a water tight container.
 Hot water from the engine block was used to heat the container in which the copper coil is placed.   at first I thought this was hardly enough heat to vaporize gasoline... but using the hottest thermostat available for the car, it was more than enough !
...
a check valve was placed on the inlet side of the coil so back pressure didn't push air bubbles into the gas line or gas tank...or harm the mechanical fuel pump .
...
on the other side of the coil is the outlet side of the vaporizer attached to this is a needle valve, and that needle valve had a rod through the dash with a knob on it and that was how you controlled the fuel flow.
from the needle valve it went into the carburetor just as the original gas line did
....
the original plans that my brother in law sent me said that he insulated all lines and the large water pipe extremely well.... I only did that after I could not get it to work consistently.... and yes it helped a great deal !  <GRIN>
...
here is a quick pic I drew up to show you guys...
...
the coil was very hard to make ...I had to fill the 1/4" copper tubing with fine sand blasting sand by standing on the roof of my trailer house with a funnel and a bag of sand ! it took about an hour to fill and tamp it down good and tight... then I pinched off the ends of the copper tube and then coiled the tubing around a 1.25" pipe to get my coil for the heat exchanger. without the sand the copper tubing would crimp and not bend well...
...
Bob...

[janmarsh]

I understand fog is heavily saturated air Bob. Have that fog then pass through a higher temperature prior to intake. It's vaporisation would be very rapid.
It would obviously not be as straight forward as just pouring your fuel into a fogging unit.  Specific gravity of the liquid may call on it's own particular frequency to fog.  

[Bob]

and that idea may well prove a very good method of getting a great deal of Vapor at a time
like for large engines   running a large vaporizer (as they call them) to saturate the air with moisture for kids with "bronchitis" ...using one of these units and very hot air would vaporize the gasoline very well ! and if you used say 150~200 degree air it may well push the temperature high enough... so as the vapor goes into the intake manifold and below atmospheric pressure that it would still stay vapor long enough to be burned in the cylinders...
 that's a very good idea Marshal !
...
 to me that is probably the major reason the vaporizer hasn't really worked for most people...
because when the vapor enters the below atmospheric pressure of the intake manifold
it would condense back into droplets ... but if the air temperature was say 200 degrees or maybe a bit less, the drop in temperature due to the vacuum would not be enough to break the gas out of the vapor state. and it would flow into the cylinders and be burned as intended... as vapor !

....
 I really think Now that this is the Major reason I have failed in building a good working gasoline vaporizer !  it takes a large volume of hot air at the intake to keep that vapor in the vapor state !
... I mean I've done everything else ... it just about HAS to be that ! LOL
 the vaporizer I had on my Dodge that was 25ft of 3/8" copper tubing tightly wrapped around the exhaust pipe next to the header pipe, and it was at least 18" to 20" Long very tightly coiled loops... made a HUGE amount of vapor....
 I had a "T" in the line and I vented it one time when it was warmed up and running on vapor .... and I left the fuel pump on .... the cloud of vapor was so big  it scared the heck out of me.... because I made a very large dangerous FUEL-AIR BOMB!... I turned it all off and carefully walked away... careful not to make any sparks !
 if it would have ignited it would have leveled my house and the neghbors house as well !  the size of the cloud was bigger than a large hot air balloon !
.... I promiced myself not to be that stupid again ! LOL !
...
but my vaporizer was big enough.
and it was getting into the engine and running ok on it at idle...
so I was almost there ! I just needed a bit more heat from my heat riser and I think I would have had it !
... the 318 v8 in that Dodge sucks in allot more AIR than I ever gave it credit for !
...
 I thought about making a steel radiator to run the exhaust through to make a large volume heat exchanger for the intake.... which I am sure would be enough heat...
but I don't think I quite need that much heat ! LOL !
the exhaust temperature near the header bolts is around 800 to 1000 degrees as high as 1200 degrees ...( I think everyone has seen red hot exhaust pipes before... )
and on my old Dodge the exhaust pipes come off real easy ! HAHAHAHA
...
...

Oh I just thought of something to warn everyone about... on my Pinto when I was running the vaporizer.... I have had the carburetor apart many times and knew it has a brass or copper float in it so I was not worried about hurting it if I raised the temperature of the carburetor real high.... well, that isn't what happened ... I melted the accelerator pump's  rubber suction cup ! on about the 2nd run ! ....(I replaced it with a tight fitting washer!... didn't work too good either!)
if the carburetor you have has plastic parts in it you best try an older carburetor !
most of the carburetors you find on cars now days have plastic floats and needle valves and even plastic emulsifier tubes... getting one of them hot would be a disaster!
...
..
Bob....

[Manta]

It seems that most of the problems with alternative fuel comes down to the control systems.  It's the same for hydroxy.

Do you remember the petrol/paraffin tractor engines that had a 'hot spot' at the inlet to exhaust manifold interface ?

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

that is so true Manta !
 and this is no exception... to say that the control on my ford Pinto was a bit Crude is a massive understatement !

I think a propane carburetor can be employed to take the fuss out of using Vaporization
but  I am not totally sure... because I tried it and it wouldn't run because it ran way way WAY too rich.... and at that time there were only 3 jets available for that carburetor
and they were all too rich !
... I took an old diaphragm main jet apart  and was going to try to make my own main jet
for the propane carb. but I never finished it...  in that type of main jet a hunk of metal , a cone is riveted to a diaphragm and the diaphragm is used to raise and lower the main jet
...
 if the truth were known  the reason the propane carb did not work on the pinto was probably because of its LARGE SIZE !  HAHAHAHAHA the throat on that single bbl carb is 2" at least!
...
now days propane carbs can be had in many sizes !  so it shouldn't be a problem making the vaporizer automatic !  and hassle free!
...
Bob...

[Bob]

If anyone knows of a place to get bi-metal springs or something like it to control temperature flow I'd sure appreciate knowing it !
 what I am looking for is a spring that opens a door at 150 degrees to as much as 200 degrees...
my ford Pinto had a spring loaded Flap on the intake horn that opened a door that had a tube/hose going down to the heat riser... the tube was gone but the idea was planted in my brain that it would be possible to control the temperature of the air for the intake and keep it at 150 degrees ...
...
but without some thermostatically controlled thing of some sort, it will have to rely on thermometers and a manual door controlled by the operator on a push pull cable. and I'd like it to be completely automatic !  at least once its running.
...
Bob...

[Bob]

Manta...
 I don't remember ever messing with a tractor like that but I think I might have hurd of them.... one of the first diesel tractors were single cylinder and had a gold rod that you heated up with a torch before starting....the rod was located on the head if I remember correctly and acted as a pre-heater for the diesel fuel...making it easier to start.
because they needed all the help in the world just to get them running.. there was no crank starter, just a large flywheel with a hole in it that you put a bar in and gave a yank to turn the flywheel ! LOL ... if you didn't pull out the bar fast enough you could loose a bar or alot of hide or both! ...
 I alwayse wanted a tractor like that... they were so KOOL  but I never really had any experience with them...
...
 I'ed love to make a replica of a steam tractor... FULL SIZE!  LOL but it'll have to wait till I win the Lottery! HAHAHHAHA
...
 I'd have a tractor farm here if I could afford it ! one of every make and design!
...as well as every motorcycle ever produced! HEHEHHEE
...

Bob....
 

[Weapon_R]

While fog does not expand like hot vapor would. It will surly increase mileage by a factor of 2-4 times or more.
As stated earlier this can also be passed thru a copper coil to heat the gas further increasing effciency.
Just my two cents.
Few interesting links
http://hhogastechnology.weebly.com/bills-vapor-carburetor-car.html
http://hhogastechnology.weebly.com/2011-chevrolet-cruze-gasoline-vapor-carburetor.html
Lots more info on the site.
Bob it may work better if you allow vacuum to act on the vapor.
I am currently working on a vapor system. More on that later.

[Bob]

Oh man... that site is pure torture ! 2 seconds of video and wait 5 seconds ! UGH!
...
 I never did see any drawings or diagrams on his system
 however they did show enough on the SMALL ENGINE Vaporizer for me to realise that its simply a "GEET REACTOR" on the little engine... nothing wrong with that because they actually do work to a certain extent...
 its really hard to say what he has there and what he is calling gasoline Vapor
...very interesting however  thank you !
...
...
...
 allowing the vacuum to work on the vapor ?   you mean bubble the gasoline ? as in drawing air through raw gasoline ? and sucking that into the engine ?
...
 I did this after the vaporizer attempt with a 2 gallon mason jar and 2 aquarium air stones and a small valve...
 I simply put a 2 gallon mason jar under the hood. ran a air line down to the bottom of the jar, through the lid (sealed) and put 2 aquarium air stones on the bottom of the line.
then I put a vacuum line from the inside of the lid, through a valve, and then to the bottom of the carburetor's vacuum port.
 adjusted the valve at idle to where I had a good flow of bubbles and left it at that...
 I tried water, gasoline and diesel in the jar... Diesel was the best and it gave me about 3 to 5 MPG improvement and a good 20% increase in HP ! it really ran good with the diesel in it ! LOL
...
 this system was designed to burn Water in the engine , and it did so quite well
it removed all the carbon in the engine using water... using gasoline  I really only noticed a moderate increase in performance... and the gas mileage stayed about the same
using diesel in the Jar the MPG went up slightly, and performance really improved...
...
 its what I call a Water Mister type set up...
 I could see a major gain in MPG if you were to do this and also cut back the gasoline that NORMALLY gets to the engine through the carburetor...  other wise adding More fuel to a system doesn't really help reduce its USE !  LOL
... I do not know how much MPG you could get with such a arrangement if you went
"whole hog" with it. but I suspect at least double the current MPG but I doubt much more
... still 60MPG on my Toyota Cilica would be really a change for the better !
45mpg on my toyota truck  isn't bad either...
 using a bunch of aquarium air stones and drawing all your air used through the engine
"through the gasoline in the jar" could really change things However !
 you could adjust the Richness of the vapor/mist by how many air stones are being used
and get it adjusted to 15:1 to as lean as 20:1 and I bet you'd get well over 100mpg !
...
it doesn't get any simpler than this.... and still work! LOL
...
Bob...

[Bob]

here's a Drawing of the water Mister or vaporizer that I used on the Pinto after I took the Gasoline vaporizer OFF the car... I used water... water and OIL... gasoline, and Diesel in the Jar... Diesel worked the best
 without changing anything else on the car it gave me about a 2 MPG increase on the average
....
 its as simple as it gets... the vacuum line on the left goes to the vacuum port under the carburetor. valve adjusts the amount of "Vapor" made by sucking air through the liquid !



FWIW.

Bob....

[Bob]

now taking the Above idea... and applying it to a fuel injected engine .
(like my pickup) hehehehhe
....
 a large container able to be sealed air tight is needed and a few valves used to adjust the richness of the vapor load...( container filled about 1/2 way up the sides)
using either a BUNCH or aquarium air stones or make a massive bubbler over the entire bottom of the container...  You could pull ALL the air the engine uses from the Intake manifold right through the container....
you could adjust the richness of the vapor load by how much of the bubbler is being used
by opening the valves or closing them ...
....
sense all the air going into the intake is sucked from the container( you'd want to put a air cleaner on the container)  there would be no need for gasoline in the injector system... so you could just pull the fuze on the injectors and turn them off....  throttle would be by the butterfly in the air distributor.... sense the vapor is already mixed at the right amount every bit of it is burnable....
this would be a very very effecient system indeed!
...( having allot of gasoline vapor in a container could be a Explosion hazard.)
...
problems that I could see coming out of this method would be ICING on the intake manifold.... but as long as it ran who cares if it frosted up ?
....
 Cold weather use may or may not be very good because of the reluctance of the gasoline in the container to vaporize.... I think its just one of those "try it and see" things as far as the weather is concerned!

 
....

Bob....

[Bob]

LOL I think that would WORK !
what do you guys think ?
...
Bob...

[crb]

Getting back to your heater/vacuum valve, My ford has a vacuum controlled heat sensor in the
air cleaner to control the cold air going into the snorkel.
I raised the temperature of the air, but that's about all it did.
It's sort of adjustable, Quite a large heat range open and close. If that makes any sense.

crb

[Bob]

Yah ! I've played with a few of those on the air-cleaners that controlled the air from the heat riser... purdy nifty doo-hicky !  HAHAHAH!
 the problem is I don't know at what temperature they open and close. the one on my ford  f100 opened at say 65 to 70deg  so when it was cold it was open most of the time !
it was designed to let hot air in when the temperature was cold outside and shut it off when it was warm.... I guess to prevent vapor lock and stuff... I think that is the main principal of the things ... however what I want to do is have it work in the SAME  direction... but at a higher temperature.  open all the time till it gets about 175~200 degrees and then close  that way it would maintain the HIGH temperature in the intake air.
...
I think the temperature can be adjusted by the spring tension... bend the tang and make more tension on the spring for a higher opening temp.... I THINK.... I haven't looked at one in ages however! LOL

I think it had a bi-metal coil spring on one side or it may have been just a spring , I'm not sure and a vacuum pot on the other side that did the closing...
I think the water heated vacuum switch controlled it ...I can't remember the name they gave those silly switches ... but 7 out of 10 times they were always froze and had to be replaced ! lol  and 9 out of 10 times if the distributor wasn't getting Advanced at high RPM it was the switch because it controlled the vacuum on the spark advance as well !



....
Bob...

[Manta]

Bob,

...it was designed to let hot air in when the temperature was cold outside and shut it off when it was warm.... I guess to prevent vapor lock and stuff... I think that is the main principal of the things ....

The main reason for them was to stop the carb from icing up.  Once upon a time it was common for people to start their cars in winter only to have them stop shortly afterwards.  if left alone,  they would start again after a few minutes. it was because the bit of heat available was enough to melt  the drop if ice that had blocked the main jets.

This becomes critical when you are flying a light plane in conditions condusive to icing. Giving full carb heat at the first sign of rough running will stop the engine cutting out, although it will run rough for a short while as the carb clears. I'm not sure, but I think you also have to apply full heat on final approach just in case you need to overshoot;  a very bad time to have the carb ice up.

This,  of course,  doesn't apply to injection engines as they don't have the problems caused by negative pressure icing.

Dave
(Manta)

[Manta]

Bob,

Re the temperature control.

A lot of the Citroen XUD Diesel engines have a device the advances the juel pump timing as the engine warmes up. It workes a bit like the wax thermostat,  but draws a length of cable in and out as it heats up. Mayme you could adapt one of these.

About the tractors.
The bi-fuel ones we had were Fordson and had two fuel tanks.  A small one for the start up gasoline and a larger one for TVO (Kerosene to you).  You just had to remember to drain the carb when you had finished work for the day or it wouldn't start if the carb still had TVO in it.

The Single cylinder tractor we had was a Marshall, and it had a spiral cut around the large flywheel that you engaged an arm with.  The arm worked the de-compressor. It also had a removable plut that you used for warm up.  We used it as a winching tractor;  and it was quite good,  but took too long to start up. We replaced it with a Fordson Diesel.

Dave
Manta

[Bob]

Ahh so the old Marshal was a duel fuel thing long before it became popular ! LOL
 We had an old gas D2 Cat here for a long time... I loved that thing , when My mom sold it it was like saying good by to an old friend! LOL
...
I am wondering if you could get enough vapor by bubbling the intake air through a vat of gasoline to run the engine just on the vapor or mist that's created.
 Technically that is not Vapor at all , its only Vapor when its temperature changes its molecular state... then its vapor  fine droplets is just real real good atomization...
...but fumes off the top of gasoline IS vapor.... so Its hard to say exactly what it is !
LOL mist or vapor! but something could be made to supply all the air used in an engine
to saturate it with say 14:1 gas to air ratio and then  pass up the normal system for getting gas to the engine....  its bound to be better as far as gas mileage goes...
 it would run smoother that's for sure ...
how much of a MPG increase you'd get over the conventional system is hard to say
I am guessing not that much of an increase... but you could then just supply hot air to the intake and vaporize the mist completely ....
 I think this idea has great merit !
...
Bob....

[Bob]

lol every time I stop and think about the possibilities of the above... i.e. bubbling air through the gas to make vapor.
 I can't help but think of the "Geet Reactor!"
it is said to run things on vapor as well...
I still have my Geet Reactor i made for the B&S 3.5hp.... it did work... it ran on gasoline
in the container... but not on straight water,...it took at least a 50/50 mix if gas and water to run water in it.
....
still... that alone us a 50% increase in mpg right off the bat.and I have no idea how much just running it off of straight gas in the container increased the MPG because of the vapor.... I don't think it was that much though... as the gas level dropped fairly fast in the  container.
...
I read a story with great interest when I was making the Geet Reactor...
a guy made a geet reactor for his International travel all... a Notoriously Super bad gas mileage truck made by international harvester (IH) those trucks got 7 to 8MPG ! is all
no kidding !  my dad worked for them in their body shop for a time and that was indeed their mileage !  at the time chevy and ford were getting 15 to 20mpg in their trucks.
...
 This guy supposedly made a geet Reactor system for the V8 in his truck and used 2 small weed eater pumper carburetors to power it ... one over each exhaust manifold...
he calmed over 400MPG.... and to me that just sounds too good to be true !
...
 but considering that its a gasoline vaporization system that high of Mileage is Possible ! .... at least it has been calmed  to be that high by others...
could the Geet reactor actually Work as a fuel vaporization system ? perhaps so !
 the method of the Geet reactor to get the "Job Done" to me leaves allot to be desired!
too much Hokus-pokus and Spy intregue on their web site to make heads or tails of anything
 <GRIN>
 but the idea of the Geet system was to use the exhaust to bubble the gasoline in a container... take that bubbled fumes and mix it slightly with air and burn it as the fuel air charge in the engine....
  that part of the GEET Reactor Does indeed WORK ...I can attest to that much myself !
but when you add magnetized metal rods and have to point the reactor to magnetic north when first running the thing, that sounds too much like black magic to me and not science!
...<GRIN>

 however that tells me that you can indeed get enough vapor off a container of gasoline by pulling air through it.

 I think rather than using the exhaust to push CO2 and vapor into the airspace above the gasoline , why not use the entire vacuum stroke of the engine to draw air through the gas?
...
 just like my old water Mister I used on the Pinto so many years ago...why not use the entire intake vacuum to do the same thing ?  its bound to be a better carburetor than we have to date... and if the intake is heated by the exhaust to a high enough temperature you would have true vapor going into the engine !
...
Bob.....


 

[Weapon_R]

 I think rather than using the exhaust to push CO2 and vapor into the airspace above the gasoline , why not use the entire vacuum stroke of the engine to draw air through the gas?
...
 just like my old water Mister I used on the Pinto so many years ago...why not use the entire intake vacuum to do the same thing ?  its bound to be a better carburetor than we have to date... and if the intake is heated by the exhaust to a high enough temperature you would have true vapor going into the engine !
...
Bob.....

This is what I mean by using vacuum. This can be done one of two ways.

Allow all the intake air to carry gasoline vapor or some of it like the water vapor injection you spoke about.

Personally I prefer using a part of the intake vacuum using a needle valve to control mixture.
I think this is what you mean By using entire vacuum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEed43yimmM

[randy]

maybe a pressure cooker type vessel with some kind of heat control regulated by the pressure, if your getting 100 miles per gallon just stop and fill it back up when it runs out direct all the incoming air around the exhaust manifold to prevent recondensing probably just rig up a drip feed to get it running to warm up.

[Bob]

Weapon-R
Yah that's it !
...
and that a 2004 Dodge  (I believe that has E.F.I.) so that's why he pulled the fuze to the injectors.... um... obviously!
...
that is exactly what I had in mind... I wonder if the engine could be reved up though
..its a pity they didn't show that much ! LOL
...
this IDEA could be carried out in many ways !  and it would be far better than a sprey from the injectors.... because the very Molicules are loose and suspended in the air
...
 However, according to the US Auto manufacturers the fuel delivery system on today's cars is SUPPOSED to be around 98% efficient.... and if they are telling the truth that leaves only 2% for an improvement... not very much in MPG 
... Adding hot air from the Exhaust as Randy said  would turn it into a pure vapor running engine....
...
 I used a 2ndary needle valve on my adaptation for my Dodge 318 vapor system
the fuel pump pumped fuel into a "T" junction in the fuel line, one leg of that "T" flowed to the vaporizer. the other leg went to a needle valve drip system I used for start-up and warm up.  this worked very well actually... and I had no trouble with it at all even as crude as it was ! <GRIN>
once the engine was warmed up I simply turned off the needle valve in the dash !
Idle was set then by the butterfly in the carb that was getting the vapor.
...
 Getting enough Hot air for 100% vaporization is not as easy as you think however !
 I had a Massive heat riser built on the left side header pipe . I clamped short pieces of copper pipe to the exhaust pipe with large hose clamps. I then covered this whole
section with a Dryer hose and stretched it out to reach the air intake
 the intake air at Idle was 198 deg or so... and gaining on 200deg...
so that worked great ...I thought !   but upon revving the engine up to 3000RPM and holding it there for a few seconds the temperature of the air coming into the intake took a Nose dive ! it was 165 deg and falling....  so I tried to drive it and I got about 30 feet before it started staggering.... so 30 ft before it started re condensing back into liquid !   ....so close but yet so far!
...
 Obviously a bigger better Heat riser would be needed... and finding the room under the hood for a better one might be difficult!
  I am sure it can be done however !
....
Bob....

[Weapon_R]

Bob the vehicle will rev to a point. This depends on size of the container and the efficiency.
Typical application revs to about 3000 rpm without too large of a container which is sufficient.
I talking about bubbling thru the gas. Fuel tank can also be used as a bubbler with check valve or breather
or it will be collapsed by the vacuum.
I posted this link before

http://hhogastechnology.weebly.com/2011-chevrolet-cruze-gasoline-vapor-carburetor.html

Watch the second video (Part 2) on the page. You will see where the engine is reved.

Here you can see a vehicle being reved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j63vFoB4aE

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkS5XImyguE

[Weapon_R]

Also see here how simple a device is required.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay7yWQUK3qY
Note that the engine revs quite nicely.

If the engine runs totally on this small jar to supplement the fuel is not an issue.
The cooling by vacuum can be address by restricting air flow or routing exhaust gases via the pcv or muffler thru the system.
If this method is used the system will work without a vacuum and use no energy from the engine.
The faster you go the more vapor it creates.
So its far more efficient than hho. I am building a car to run tests but waiting on datalogging equipment.
A very important note is that vapor type devices do not normally trigger a check engine light.

Personally I am not sure why the hho community worry so much about the check engine light.
If the system is designed to be turned off then there is no need to worry.

[Bob]

Well that answers All my questions ! THANK YOU Weapon-R !
....
I am going to make a little unit for my B&S 3.5hp engine just for S&G's
....

I am dieing of courousity now on how many MPG's I could get on my toyota Pickup by constructing such a simple setup !
....
...
Remember when I mentioned the real old Patent done on a Model A ? with an up draft carberator .... the metal box was how in the frame and had the exhaust pipe running through it.... "Heated by the Exhaust" seams to be very important because if we learn from that guys Video he was having problems because things were getting very cold....
 I guess the fella that made the patent so long ago figured that out too and devised the cure by running the exhaust pipe through the box !
.... I never thought that the idea on his unit was not to Heat it till it vaporized
but just to warm it up !  DUH... if I can I am going to make a unit for testing
and then one for my truck.... I gott'a find out how much MPG it will give me !
.... LOL
...
thank you very much Weapon-R  you have given me more info on fuel vaporization than I have seen in 20 years! HAHAHHAHAH
...
this is such a Simple approach I can't see how I can screw it up ! LOL !!!!!!
... no vaporizing coils to make no complicated Hose routing.... HAHAH ! I gott'a do this!
...
Bob....

[Bob]

LOL
As usual I drew up a design in GMAX for my idea of using Vapor on the B&s 3.5hp
...
the way its drawn it had controls on every aspect of the fuel ... probably un nessary too
... but I figured for test purposes it couldn't hurt and it would help getting the engine running good faster.
 I imagon that the fuel/air mixture (B.) will be purdy much a "set it, and forget it" thing once its warmed up...
 I seriously doubt it would need a control valve on the intake air under the air cleaner (c.)
 and the throttle (A.) is just a normal ball valve , nothing fancy.
 
I decided that a Vertical pipe  used as a gas-tank with the exhaust pipe going through it
is really all I needed... the exhaust pipe would partially heat the gas in the bottom of the container/pipe... because the air being drawn through the gasoline will cool the container down allot.... the 2 actions, heating and cooling will more than likely loose out to heating... and the tank get real hot !  if this is the case maybe just having the
exhaust pipe along side the tank is enough... its hard to say
... I would like to see the intake pipe heated well though... and I havn't came up with a way to do that that is easy yet ! LOL
...
Bob...

[Bob]

well I got the pipe cut to length... a top and a bottom for the pipe to make it into a container... the motor running good and then I took the carb and gas tank off, so I am fitting the pieces together now....
I decided that I don't need a "Filler cap" for the tank as I can just pour gas down the small intake pipe.... then put the air cleaner back on ! LOL...
... I was out there trying to decide what I was forgetting and I just knew there was something.... came in here and did my email and looked at the pic I posted yesterday and sure enough ...I was forgetting the THROTTLE !!!!   GOOD GREEF!  HAHAHAHAHA
...
anyway... this should be an interesting project ! can't wait to try running it!
'cuz I think it will work good !
...
Bob...

[Bob]

Well, I spent all day playing with that thing....er building it <GRIN>
I got everything ready to be welded,,,just one hole to drill fir the intake elbow to be welded over....
... I have a gut feeling I am going to need another valve to regulate air
and I haven't done that yet... I have in the drawing that the air valve or Fuel air ratio adjust... is attached to the container... On second thought thats probably not the best place for it... as it may not get enough AIR that way
the best place for it is just after the throttle valve... a "T" between it and the vapor tube.
...I'll see what I have to act as a fuel/air ratio adj. tomorrow...
right now I have a 1/2" 90 deg Ell pipe fitting screwed into the ball valve, but if I take that out and put a 1/2" "T" there instead of the Ell that would give me a good place to mount another ball valve ( if I can find one) for the fuel ratio adjustment.
...
so I'll weld it all up tomorrow and see if I got any leaks and then hook it up and try it !
... Fun stuff !
HAHAHA
...
Bob....

 

[Bob]

I did some changes on the drawing.
it now has only 2 valves, and no cap on the gas tank/vaporizer... I figure I can simply pour the gas down the air breather pipe to put gas in the tank... I'll need a funnel for that but for a beer can or 2 of gas the thing should run a long time!
...
I have all the parts lined up now and I'll try to weld it up tomorrow
...
Bob...

[Bob]

OK I welded the thing up today...
I haven't tested it for leaks yet but I don't expect to find any it welded very nicely on the bottom !  LOL
...
I made it just like the drawing above but I turned the 3 way "T" upside down... this allowed me to connect to the top edge of the fuel tank and put the fuel air ratio valve out to the side where its easier to get to , rather than under the hot exhaust pipe!
...
I have the unit assembled and on the kitchen table at the moment... its ready to go tomorrow when the RTV Silicone is good and Dry... where I sealed the intake from the valve that goes to the top edge of the fuel tank...
 I had to do it this way so I could get it apart in 2 pieces ! ... first the exhaust and fuel tank combonation get put on the motor....  this screws in to the exhaust port on the engine, so nothing can be in the way of the big tank turning...
 once its threaded in I locked the threaded pipe with a lock nut on the threaded pipe of the exhaust pipe, and its there to stay.
next I mounted the intake manifold and throttle valve unit... I had to modify it slightly before welding the thing up because it needed to bend outward a bit to clear the gas tank
...after making a gasket for the intake manifold and applying the RTV silicone to it as well all I had left to do was seal up the elbow that points to the hole in the top edge of the gas-tank.... I simply gooped it on till it looked good and sealed all the way around it.
...its still drying...
...
another slight modification I did was on the air intake pipe of the gas tank was to cut small notches about 1/8" deep in the end of the pipe all the way around it... this is so at idle and the air flow is low it will bubble out all the way around the pipe  and in theory give a better vaporization of the gas in the tank.
the pipe is welded 1/2" off the bottom of the container and  because the pipe is on the Side of the container on the top I bent the pipe slightly to be almost centered on the bottom.
...
I hope to take a picture of it Running tomorrow for you ! LOL
...
Bob....
 

[Bob]

I made another board...
 for fuel vaporizers...
...
Just so you know!
...
Bob....

[Bob]

for any of you that care...
I posted the results of this experiment on the Fuel vaporization section under B&S 3.5hp Vaporizer...
...
 Yes it does indeed work ! I ran a beer can full of gas through it this afternoon !
Weeee ~!

http://www.hydroxyhut.com/index.php/topic,753.0.html
...
Bob...