My XR650L Fixin'

[Bob]

I bought a used 1995 Honda XR650L bike about 2 weeks ago, got it realy cheap for $800 bucks but it wasn't running... anyway i hauled it home and have been fixing it up.
...
I discovered right off that there was no spark to the spark plug, so I started hunting for the cause...
I finally came to the conclusion that it was the ICM (Ignition control module) by the process of elimination. so I ordered a new one on the net, found it fairly cheap at $119. plus shipping which was better than $189.00 plus shipping at the bike shop ! however its taken him a week to send it and it should be here by this Wednesday I hope!
...
In the mean time I've fixed the cracked plastic in a few places and gave it a fresh paint job !
....I just put a coat of paint on the tank and boy is it a bright Red/orange... more red than orange
but really flashy! the frame is white... and instead of painting it black like I was going to do I just decided to patch up the white spots that needed paint. lots easier that way!
... as close as I can tell the bike is ready to go now...all it needs is spark ! hehehehe
I am hoping that this bike will be "FUN" to ride and not like the 1100cc which is more like driving a motor-home than a motor-cycle due to its weight! LOL
...
 if this bike does what I think it will I will be riding more often !
...
Bob....
 

[randy]

them XRs are designed for off road, just the added 12" suspension will make for a comfortable ride, it'll navigate over a parkbench hahahaha
Had an XR 200 years ago, sat outside in the rain most of the time, then one day it just wouldn't start, went for the obvious first, sprayed electrolytic lub into the key switch worked it a bit, didn't work, took the throttle front brake lever assy apart, there was a switch for run and off on there, opened it up, some insect had made a home in there, cleaned it out and polished things up, fired right up. lost a coil on the thing once too. didn't have any problems with the CDI part.

[Bob]

HAHAHA first thing I checked was the run /stop switch on the handle bar Randy ! heheheh My VT1100 has the tenancy to act up every once in a while because of that stupid switch !
i checked and double checked it, finally took it off completely and did a continuity test after cleaning up the contacts...it works fine... now !
I tested the coil and the resistance check says its good, as is the stator,pulse trigger and charging curcuit.... I went through it with a fine tooth comb and the only thing it can be is the CDI unit by the battery....because everything else in the curcuit checks out good !
.... ofcourse you know how that goes... I'll probably replace the darn thing and still have no spark if so then its got to be a broken wire in there somewhere! .... but I don't think even thats the case as I checked voltages on the plug in wires and they all seam to be in good shape.... most of those plug in wires to the CDI box are from the silly safty switches ! I already cut one off on the side stand so the darn thing won't die when I put it in gear and the side stand is down !
the other one on the clutch I am tempted already to disconnect !  I don't need a machine telling me how to operate it ! LOL  but they are all there and in good working order, so I'll leave the rest of them for now ! hehehehehhe
 yah its got at least 12" of ground clearance that's for sure ! 37" seat height and my 30" inseam don't mix at all !  I have to climb up on it !  hehehehhehe
650cc of thumper should be such a Kick to ride I can hardly wait !
  I had a XT 500cc yamaha back in the 1990's and chased my kid on her KX125cc quite a bit!
even with all that power it was hard for this old man to keep up! my kid had 32hp and no weight at all ! HAHAHAHAHHAHA !  I had about 58hp and 350lbs on the bike and 200 for me .... twas allot or rocks and gravel being thrown in the air when I left but my kid just went zip and was gone ! LOL
...I miss those days of Riding... twas great exersize and allot of good fun !
....
I just wish Honda would have put a Kick starter on the XR650L.... but sense it was the street legal version they didn't .... that reminds me I gott'a inquire with the DMV to see what its going to cost to get it licensed again. last time it was licensed was 4 yrs ago.... that might be painful !
i dunno if he got a green sticker on it or not...( I think he did) if so it won't be bad at all.
...
I've had Honda 350cc singles before... good reliable bikes lots of fun but this one looks like it will put them to shame ! I guess I'll see Tuesday when the part gets here if my diagnostic skills are up to par ! LOL
...
Bob....

and YAH I painted right over the Honda stickers on the tank...... shame on me ! LOL

[Bob]

I've been looking at buying a "lowering LINK" for the XR but its really hard to drop over $200 bucks on something so easy to make ! but the problem is I dunno how long they are... probably only 1/4" longer than stock but I dunno...
its supposed to replace the lower link on the rear Mono-shock lengthening it lowers the seat height and softens the ride.... sounds like what this o'l man needs to me ! LOL
...
 I'll probably make one soon ! ...I'm sure I can find some 1/2" plate steel around here I can sacrifice to the cause! HAHAHAH!


Bob

[Bob]

Welp...I got that Ignition control modual.... put it in and got big blue spark NOW ! so I guess my diagnosics skills are still with me ....either that or I follow the manual real good! LOL!
... still won't run though.... I pulled the valve/cam cover and discovered why ( I think)
it was one tooth off on the valve timing !
so I'm trying to figure out a way to tighten the bolts on the cam chain Sprocket without turning the engine.... I think my long nose vice grips is the answer for that...clamp on to the sprocket and hold it from turning, while I tighten the bolts down... then install the cam chain tightener and check the timing again... if its where it should be then its button it back up and try it again !
....
for a while there I was thinking I had to remove the engine from the frame just to get the valve cover off... but I got it off there without doing all that...
how I'm supposed to get the cover back on with the sprocket bolted in place is another story !
there is NO clearance at all on that thing.... typical Honda engineering! ... Honda is the only manufacturer that I know of who produced a bike that you had to remove the engine just to adjust the valves... (the 400cc super hawk if I remember correctly) but I think they saw the folly in that because they quit making it shortly there after ! clearance on Honda's has alwayse been a sore spot with me, Kawasaki gives you at least 1/2"  but not Honda ! heheheheheh everything has to be just perfect to get a side plate on and off or a head .... the funny thing is they didn't alwayse do that !
they started it in the 1980's  trying to make it harder for the home machanic to work on them I guess...I dunno but man some of them are just plane murder to work on with the engine in the frame
I have seen many mechanics just pull the engines to do something as simple as clutch plate replacement
....that was back before all this smog stuff on them too I guess ! LOL
now there is no room to do anything on them!
 I had to remove the gas tank to pull the spark plug on that silly bike ! LOL !
geeeeez !
...
Hopefully I'll get that beast running tomorrow !
...
Bob

[Bob]

Wahooo ! it Runs !
boy do it ever Run ! WOW !
grab a handful of throttle and if there's enough traction the front end comes up !...other wise it throws dirt for 20 yards ! HAHAHAHAH
... I fought it and fought it trying to get it to light up but it was stubbern! I kept after it and finally got it to run for a few seconds on quick start.... I noticed gas leaking out of the carb earlier
so I knew if I wanted it to run good I'd have to clean out the carb !
following true to form got it almost buttoned back up and noticed a part I left out of the carb...so I had to take it all back apart again  LOL .....I did the same thing when I had the valve cover off, I put it all back on tightened everything down and  THEN found the 2 Dowels ! so I took it off again and put them in properly! sheez!
...after I put the carb back on and gas tank on it I hit the starter and it fired right up !
it belched smoke for a good 2 minutes straight  I was beginning to worry about weather it had any rings in it or not ! LOL.... I checked the oil and it was about 1/2 a quart low added a 1/2 quart and then decided to take it for a short ride...  I road down to the mail box and back and couldn't believe how soft riding it is !  got back and checked the oil again and its just a bit over full now.
and it stopped smoking quite so bad.  I set for a bit fiddling with things and decided to ride it down to the mail box again.
 I didn't notice any smoke at all when I stopped it this time... it makes allot of noise inside when its running , like cam chain noise, but I know its adjusted properly.
 all 5 speeds work fine and 5th is really steep ! should be able to cruse at 70 easy with that thing if I want to... the speedometer works too which was nice to see ! I did 45mph on our creek bed of a road coming back with no problem at all!... rear break is a bit soft needs to be adjusted up a bit.
the tires are Knobbies, and suck for street but that's minor!
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I welded up the plastic cowling on the right side that was broken, the other day with the soldering iron and some scrap plastic that melted about the same....seams to have worked very well !
I used a hot glue gun on it but it only held for about 3 hrs then popped apart...
plastic welding is new to me but it is something I will definitely get better at ! I have a bunch of plastic fenders around here that need fixed ! HAHAHHAA!
....
 All in all I am quite pleased ! it runs great and is a fun monster ...even if I can't touch the ground when seated!  LOL
...
Bob......

[crb]

Glad to hear your getting it ironed out.  Should be a fun ride.
I'm trying to put some wheels in place of my front tine rototiller.
Comming along fairly well.  I've been meaning to try this for about
20 years.  I finely found a local shop that carries tubing.

crb

[Bob]

I did that a long time ago so I could hook it up and drag heavy stuff... works fairly good but it lacks traction to haul real heavy things.... I gott'a stand on the rototiller to get enough traction so it will pull some things.... all I did was take the bearings out of some 12" wheels and tires(front tires for a lawn tractor) and slid in a 1" galvanized pipe as a spindle bolted the rim straight through the pipe with a single 3/8" bolt and then added a short piece of pipe on the back side to fit the axle on the Rototiller... drilled a hole for the pin and that did the trick... the stance is about 2.5ft wide and is more than plenty wide for stability... I hooked a wagon to it and can sit on the edge of the wagon and steer it all over like a tractor.... it has a good low gear to haul heavy loads but lacks traction... I need lead weights on the front to give it more guts!
.... I never use that any more though as my Carbide 4 wheel Kart does that job nicely and is faster!
the mod that I use allot for the rototiller is a single tine ditch digger made for one side... to did water line ditches.... it only goes about 8" deep at max so its not the best but sure saves me allot of digging!  I just welded up a 4 blade 2"x1/4"x8" bar stock on a pipe that fit the axle on the rototiller...drilled a hole to pin it... and then added braces to keep the long pieces from bending
...added a cutter on each tine on the tip facing the direction of travel and sharpened them with the grinder.
 I just wish I could fit a 3ft ditch digging wheel to it ! but the problem is it would be wanting to fall over to the left all the time LOL.
...
Bob...

[Bob]

Ack ! I gotz a flat on the rear of my bike that even Green Goop won't fix....
must'a ripped the valve core out'a the inner tube !.... done that one before!
hehehehe
...
Bob...
 

[crb]

Flat's suck!!!
I'm going to use 10" (what i have).
I don't think It has very low gearing, the tines turn pretty fast,
but we shall see.
It's been a long time since I've started the tiller hope it starts. hahahaha

Was your wagon 2 wheel or 4 wheel?

crb

[Bob]

2 wheel  wagon.... but I left on the 2 back wheels on the tiller so that made the difference...the tiller rode on all 4 wheels and the wagon just attached on top of where the little plow sits...
(on top of the rear wheel attachment spot.)
...so when I had my fat but on the front edge of the wagon I could push forward on the tiller handles and increase the traction ...I usually had to do that to get it moving heheheh
....
it will surprise you how useful that makes your tiller !  after you mentioned that the other day I walked by the tiller (wheels still on it) and realized that I used the BACK wheels off a torro riding lawn mower that was given to me....not the front wheels their probably 15" in height and makes for fairly fast moving ...a good brisk walking pace ! smaller wheels wouldn't hurt at all... even better if you could add 2 wheels on each side and have dewelies !  hehehehe
...the main thing is to have them pinned so they come off easy... I have to keep mine lubed with wd-40
so they sill slide on and off without having to wrassel them for 20 minutes! (tight fitting pipes!)
you can use that arrangement to haul something real heavy out of a ditch by having a long rope
tied to the wheels/axle and let it winch its self and its load out of the ditch..... getting your rope back off is a hassle but it will even winch out a small car that way !
its like a portable winch if you have some heavy duty rope!...
I made the mistake of looping the rope high on a tree so it would pull UP and out... it did that well enough but I wound up with my tiller suspended in the air between the front bumper and the tree !
I had to take the belt off to get the silly thing to release and get it back on the ground ! LOL
...the ropes just wanted to slip on the axles till I put long bolts through the pin holes on the axles
however.... and that made unwinding the silly thing a hassle.... but twas much cheaper than a tow truck in the snow !
...now if it had a chain sprocket on that axle.... that would be really useful !
...
buy some quick start ! makes starting old B&S engines a snap ! if it won't start on quick start you don't have any spark ! LOL
...
Bob....

[Bob]

As I said a while back... I had a flat on the back of the XR650L so I pulled the rear wheel and pulled the tube out...sure enough I ripped the valve core out of the tube!
I already ordered a new tube but got to looking at the thing and thought maybe I could fix it....
the valve core is metal and is originally designed to just pinch the tube to make the seal...and a bit of glue to be sure... but the hole was ripped a bit bigger than the original so I though why not just put some fender washers on it and clamp it down again and see if that holds air ?
so that's what I did.... sure enough it took making a washer that would fit in the depression on the rim where the valve core sticks through the rim but I did it and it seams to work fine.... I put 30psi in it which is super hard for normal riding usually I put about 15 to 20lbs in the tires on a bike but sense I didn't want this thing to slip again I figured a bit more pressure wouldn't hurt...
I aired it up and let it set for about 2hrs... came back out and it was about the same as when I left it!
so I put the tire back on the bike and double checked the air pressure  everything was fine so I decided to take it for a quick spin... I went down the road about 4~5 miles turned around and came back.... not a bit of problems with it....
  I'll get street tires for it soon so the new tube will be used on it then !
now I gott'a pay the DMV a visit and see what its going to take to licenses the beast !
....
Bob....

[crb]

Sounds like you have close to what I'm trying to build.
Got the flanges welded on the axle tubes, Boy do I need welding skills!!!! puke
But they are on there.  Next to drill holes to pin the axles.
I'm planning on removing the rear wheels on the tiller and putting a
swivel joint between the tiller and wagon (if I ever get one).
Still have to get it started.
crb

[Bob]

LOL I hear ya !  My welds never look purdy any more but they definately hold ! I don't care what it looks like as long as the metal on both sides puddle !  with Oxy/accet. welding that is the secret!
with Arc welding you must run your arc to both sides long enough to get it to start to melt...that don't take long with an arc welder usually it happens by default! LOL
the biggest mistake made by amiture welders is that they move too fast when welding...
thick metal is easy to weld its the thin stuff that is a pain in the Ars! I consider anything less than 1/8" thick "thin" if your welding thin metal you need to get smaller welding rod !  the smallest stuff you can get...like 3/32" is really handy for welding up water pipe... you'll use allot of Welding rod but its worth it in the end!
....
 I always figured if I wanted my welds to look good I'd add another bead over the top and grind it all down !  LOL !
  I have some of the nastyiest looking welds you've ever seen here on the ranch , but they still hold ....so that's what counts !
...

I took the XR650L for a jaunt this morning...I went up where I used to ride as a youngster, and re discovered it again ! LOL... it was a blast !  I pulled over to the side of the road on the top of the ridge so I could "sight-see"    and promptly fell over !   I keep forgetting that darn bike is so high off the ground ! LOL ~!!!!!
... so a bit ago I lowered the front forks about 3/4" and lowered the rear as much as I possibly can
...it made quite a bit of difference ,,,but its still too tall for this short o'l man !
so far I've put over 20 miles on the o'l girl... and it just keeps getting better !
 it handles funny though... I'm not used to it by any means... the rear wheel seams to track strangely
and I'm real leary about that on the street  as I detest road rash !  HAHAHAHHA!
looks like I can cruse all day at 55 to 60mph with no trouble at all... a larger sprocket on the front or smaller sprocket on the back would raise that speed if needed, or just use more throttle ! LOL
no tach on it but I'm guessing at 3000RPM at 60mph... and it will go to 8,000RPM... probably close to 90~100mph tacked out I guess...  but I ain't doing that with those Knobby tires on it ! LOL!
there is a real smooth RPM on that bike at about 2800~3200RPM somewhere in there... and it just purrs along without trying at all !
....
I found the spot where we used to have hill-climbs when I was a Kid... the big trees are gone now, as there was a forest fire back there about 10 years back... but I looked at it and Laughed so hard I almost fell off the bike!  Ain't no frigging way I am going to try that hill any time soon ! geez leweeze! that is one steep hill !  I doubt I could crawl up it! .... seriously!
doesn't look very well used any more either ! LOL !
 I've never seen that road in such dis-repair.... there is a sigh posted on it now "end of county maintained road"  boy I guess they must have taken good care of it when I was a Kid because now its just a jeep trail ! .... I guess the forest service maintains it but they havn't touched it in years !
this road goes along the ridge from the lake all the way to Burney...a good 75 to 80 miles
and I used to ride it quite often when I was younger.
....
Bob

[Bob]

hehehe the parts I ordered a week ago finally got here, so I put them on and decided to re adjust the valve tapits on the 650cc
I also put on a clean new oil filter...probably the first new filter the bike has ever had ! LOL
....
the bike has been real noisy running.... lots of tapit rattling and/or cam chain rattle.... top end noise anyway.... so I figured re adjusting the valves might quiet it down
... I re assembled the bike and fired it up and after the oil pumped up it did quiet down some.... but not all that much.... I did notice the lack of oil on the top end when I adjusted the valves... Honda's are notorious for the oil being slow getting to the top end so I wasn't too concerned about it at the time..... but after thinking about it that more than likely is the noise problem so I'll have to check and make sure the rocker cover is getting oil supplied to it!
....
other than that, she is a good running and easy starting machine now. I've got about 33 miles on it so far but definately need street tires for that thing.... Knobbies on the street SUK ! LOL
...
I re covered the seat the other night... try as I might I could not get all the wrinkles out of the fabric... but its purdy close, good enough for me!
... I cut 2" of foam off the seat and contured the seat better than stock. it has helped to allow me to touch the ground when astride the thing much better.... not flat footed but at least the balls of my feet... and that is far better than tippy toe!  LOL

Bob....
 

[crb]

Bob,
Did you try a heat gun on the seat?
crb

[Bob]

Ah ! No I didn't ...I bet that would'a did the trick too !
  thanks for the tip !
...
Bob...

[Bob]

well, i got the bike lowered  fairly good now,
what I did was pull the bolt on the top of the read Mono-shock and trim off some metal and re drilled the hole for that shock about 3/4" higher in the shock mount bracket...
however the side canaster on the shock (the nitrogen can) touches the upper frame now. but I dented the frame so it will give enough clearance to work.
that lowered the seat height about 2"  which with all the other things I've done allows me to have my feet flat on the ground when my weight is on the seat ! ... so that is a success!
now I have to change the side stand... the kick stand is now too long and I can only park it when the ground is very un even! ....so I'll change the angle of the side stand so it angles out more , rather than straight Under the bike... so its more stable when sitting there...
most bikes now days could use a steeper angle on the side stand so it is more stable when parked.... almost all of them will blow over with a strong wind... that wouldn't happen if they were leaned a bit more and had more of a tripod footing.
... the suzuki 250 RL trials bike has the same problem the side stand goes almost straight down and is only about 6" from the center line of the tires.... hardly a stable position!
my 1100cc shadow only has a side stand (no center stand, but needs one!) however it makes the bike rest almost vertical as well... I have to drag the bike back so the side stand digs a hole in the ground before its stable enough to leave!...
I have been doing the same thing with the XR650 and its side stand , but with the lowering of the suspension its now way to long to even hope to park the machine...
so My plan is to cut the bracket on the side stand about 1/2 way through and then bend the bracket to where it makes it easy to park the bike (on level ground) then re weld the bracket and that should take care of it.
 that is far better than shortening the side stand because it also goes almost straight down and not out to the side at all... when I'm done it will go out to the side  about 8" to 10" giving it a much needed foot print for parking!
...
Bob...

 

[Bob]

Another thing I noticed was when I had the lower link off I put it on its wheels and  the machine was sitting about as High as the 1100 Shadow !    the tire came up and touched the fender when I sat on it
so leaving the link out isn't an option.... but a link with about 1/2" to 3/4" longer would make the rear suspension about NORMAL !  the rear swing arm would be level not angled down as is normal.
 and the seat height would be low enough to have my knees bent when sitting on the seat!
... so I may make a new lower link some day , but for now this looks to be good enough for this short fella!
...
hehehehhe
Bob....

[crb]

Glad to hear it's coming along.
Forgot to mention I found a hotter heat range spark plug,
seems to be just right, for the time I've run it.

crb

[Bob]

Kool ...er should I say HOT ! hehehehhe
yah replacing spark plugs all the time because their too cold of a range gets to be a drag real fast!
...
I cut the side stand bracket on the XR650 and bent it with my big pipe wrench.... tested it and it seamed about right. So I re welded it back to that position and it works very well now.
...
 I took the bike for a short ride up to the lake a bit ago, it handles so much better its not even funny
the back tracks better and although I have to force the front end around ( as is true for most bikes)
it definitely handles better than it ever has.
 Now if I can get some good tires on it and taller handle bars it'll be as good as it gets!
...
 Its without a doubt a pleasure to ride !  a great putt-putt machine that can get up and go if I want to!   I want it to corner better but I think 99% of that is tires right now.
I doubt I could even get close to dragging a foot peg with the tires that are on it right now... in fact I'm not going to even try !  Knobbies have a tenancy to slip out from under you all at once! so I'm riding it very carefully on the corners !  hehehehehhe
 but I did lay up and take a few corners fairly good.... and it seamed to handle very well indeed.
...
At Mid RPM in 5th gear cruising along is about 65mph to go any faster would take allot more RPM
I expect now that Red line would be about 85~90mph  is all... due to the low gearing.
....
Bob...

[Bob]

I went for a Long ride yesterday... I enjoyed the hell out of it too ! LOL
and at this stage in my life there is few things to do that is fun any more!
 anyway I got home parked it but knoticed it was smoking really bad....I checked the oil and it was down about 1/2 quart.... but didn't think too much about it...
this morning I checked the oil again and low and behold it was barely touching the bottom of the stick !
 so I added a quart, which was too much so I drained some out and got the oil level just right .
fired it up and road it over to the pasture and back (about 1/4 mile) and it was Smokeing like a banchee!  on my long ride I used about 1 quart of fuel ... is all but I used 1 qt of OIL as well!
... this is NOT good at all , so I decided to remove the top end and see what the problem is once and for all...
 I got the muffler off and all the plastics, seat and tank and pulled the valve tapet adjustment caps (broke 2 in the proccess!) and there was plunty of oil in the top end...
last week I pulled the covers and noticed hardly any oil up there at all.... and I know on some of the old hondas it takes forever for the oil to pump up.... but 78MILES ??  geeeeez
I should probably replace the oil pump even though it seams to be pumping just fine !
... anyway I expect to find a busted Ring or at the very least valve guide seals that are off the guides.
  I figure I'll re-ring it at the very least, depending on what damage I find. but at mid range RPM now it just pumps out the smoke.... more than likely it has a busted ring and scored cylinder wall allowing oil to be pumped into the combustion chamber.
....that's what I expect ... hard to say till I get it tore down completely
...
However the Bike preformed fantastically the other day... it cornered fantastically ! with the new tires and I got to 75mph with it on the straight stretch....which is about as fast as I'ed want to go with it I think.... it could go to about 90mph or more but the RPM would be way up there.  with steeper gearing it could go over 100mph easy, its got the power for it.
....
 I rode it hard the other day, but not crazy, just playing with it getting the front wheel up a bit and using the HP it has ...  I will say this.... it is a powerful monster!
...I bet it has a busted ring in it, and once I get it repaired it will have 2 times the power !
...LOL I'll have to learn how to ride it all over again ! HAHAHHAHAHAHHA!
...
I was really happy with the cornering ability on that beast ! it really Knifed into the turns great.... reminded me how much fun bike riding is ! HAHAHAHA!
....
I took a gamble when I bought it knowing it may need internal repair, looks like I lost the gamble... but I'm real happy I didn't pay too much for it and then have to repair it too! HAHAHAHHA
so its no biggy... I'll probably have it tore down till spring now, I hope not ! LOL
....
I'm contemplating removing the engine completely, so I can get it up on a 55 gal drum and work on it easy -like... save me bending over all the time... yah I know..... PANZY! LOL
....
Bob....

[Jake]

hey Bob you shoulda paid extra for the extended warranty on that thing! hahah Sounds like a cool project tho. What year did you say it was?

[randy]

just drop the front end and rear wheel, then sit it atop the 55 gallon barrel lol, might be a scuffed piston, rings aren't doing anything when their stuck in the groves.

[Bob]

its a 1995 Honda XR650L   Meaning a single cylinder 4 stroke 650cc displacement, Air cooled, Dirt bike that they added a headlight and tail light and stuff to make it street legal and Licensed it...
it had about 12" or more ground clearance I got that down to about 8" now so I can touch the ground !
...
 Randy ...if the rings are just stuck that would be great because I can probably fix that with only a few new parts! 
 I have a cylinder hone here that will make short work of scuff marks ... but deep scratches will mean re boring and a new piston and rings.
...
 I didn't get very far on tearing it down today, I gave up and went back to bed at 3pm and slept till
8pm LOL  ... guess that long bike ride pooped me out more than I thought! HAHAHAH!
so I'll probably go out there in a bit and remove the head and see what I got... getting it down that far is a slow proccess however... its not an easy bike to work on, everything has to be taken off 1/4~1/8 turns at a time because there is no clearance for tools of any Kind!  and believe me I have tried all my tricks!  so I can use the impact driver but its no go !
...swivel head metric Allen head sockets in 3/8" drive might make it easier but I doubt it!  there is just no room for a ratchet to clear.
....
anyway... we shall see what we shall see ! hehehehehhe
...( I don't mind working on motorcycles they have been my Passion sense day one... but it is probably more fun to ride them ! LOL)
...if I could find a way to come up with a 300! 350amp alternator on this puppy I'd try to convert it to Hydroxy gas alone ... but the alternators are quite small on motorcycles
...
Bob...

[Bob]

OK ... I got the head and cylinder off the xr650 and discovered  the rings were all stick to the piston... (Good call Randy ! )
... not real bad, but bad enough!  it took me a few hrs to get it cleaned up and shinnie again
and finally get the rings to turn smoothly in their groves once again... the worst was the oil ring..ah heck they were all bad !   there was scuffs down both sides of the piston (front and back side) and one fairly deep scratch in the cylinder... I thought it was all going to come out with the cylinder hone but not quite.... the one deep scratch still shows but only just!
  it looked to me as the thing had seized at one time  and I ran it after word which wasn't a good thing but I didn't Know it was messed up <GRIN>  I had my suspicions but nothing concrete.
... anyway I know now !
looks to me like I can repair it with no additional parts !  
 I mean it SHOULD be bored out and get a larger piston and rings and new wrist pin... but I honestly think it will run like this for the rest of its life ! or mine which ever comes first ! LOL
 IF my cleaning up the piston takes care of the Oil consumption then I'll be happy ! that is the main reason I tore it down after all.
....
 ALL the gaskets came off without tearing or being destroyed !  shock of shocks!   that never happens! but it did this time ! HEHEHEH  I'll put them back on with spray copper-coat on both sides and call that good enough!
... the only problem I encountered was getting the spark plug wrench out of the 1100's tool kit.... the lock froze up....I had to destroy it to get it off !  stupid thing!
but its the only spark plug socket on the 20acres that will fit it !  HAHAHHAHA
...
All in all I'm quite pleased that the damage was so Light !  the piston and cylinder were scuffed up fairly good but no real major deep gouges in the cylinder wall....
I thought for sure Honing it would get rid of all the scratches and it did ...all but one hair-line scratch...and its so small that I don't think it will matter at all !
...
... the piston on the other hand took a great deal of work to save.... it was indeed ROUGH !
but after using a file, wire wheel, emery cloth, a hack saw blade sharpened to clean out the piston grooves then resorting to the piston ring to clean them out in the end  I finally got it usable again....
the big end of the rod (the bearing)  feels nice and tight,,,no slop at all in it.
and the ridge from the rings at the top of the cylinder almost went away with the honing its still there a bit but there isn't much of a ridge there at all...
 I could take my ridge reamer to it but I just don't think there is enough of a ridge to worry about!
hehehehhe
...
and... its going to RAIN tomorrow !  doesn't it figure ? I got my bike all tore down and out in the yard  ...so I had to go cover everything with 2 tarps from the truck !
...
90% chance of rain they say.... I hope their WRONG I'd like to get that beast back together before the rain hits ! ... if not oooh well that's the way it goes I guess ! hehehe
....
man that cylinder is BIG!  I can double up my fist in the cylinder !
that's one big thumper !  hehehehhehe
...
that's a good name fer it ! Thumper!  ... like the Bunny Rabbit in Bambi ! HEHEHEHEHE
....
Bob...

[randy]

I'd put a new set of rings in er if it were mine, odds are one side of the rings were still in contact with the cylinder and have worn in making it start smoking bad, might only be .0005" but it'll be enough to foul your oil quickly and cause blow by in the crankcase, years ago I worked at two motorcycle shops simultaneously, one of my tricks was to get .010" oversize rings and carefully resize them to fit the bore, this is done by hand with a file, I'd always set them up at .008" end gap, and break the engine in slowly for a couple tanks of fuel.

[Bob]

well it would certainly go a long way to keeping the engine together longer! no doubt about that
...
 but look at it this way.... I honed the cylinder real good so its like fine sand-paper in there
that freshly honed cylinder will take off a sizeable chunk off the outside of the rings before they shine every thing up to a real slick surface.... and rings are designed to rotate around the piston
at least on a 4 stroke they are, in practice this is a iffy proposition at best but they can and do migrate quite a bit in operation.
 in my mind I don't think that much would be gained by replacing the rings because they are like new in tension and thickness and have no physical defects that I can see .
  replacing the Valve guide SEALS SHOULD be done.... no doubt ... but what the heck its not a new bike and I don't care if it uses SOME oil just not as much as it was ! LOL
... it only has 6,000 miles on it ...granted probably a zillion hours  and all of it on the dirt from the looks of things, but inside the engine looks fairly new, hardly any ware at all.
...
as the weather man predicted we have Rain this morning.... glad I covered the Bike and parts real good , so it will wait for better weather before I get out there and attempt the re-assembly
... the rest of my order finally arrived for the bike , that I ordered when I ordered the tires
so I put on the matching rear-view mirror, shelved the inner tube for later use, and  I think I can make the face shield work on my helmet ... so everything turned out just peachy!
...all but the weather ! LOL
...
that seat cover is slowly getting tighter and taking out the wrinkle so its not so noticeable now.
...
Also, when I was welding up the plastic I modified a soldering iron by flattening out the tip
and slightly arching it... (saw a video on U-tube of a fella re enforcing wheel chair wheels, and he was definitely good at it! and that's what he had.) anyway the new tip helps a great deal and makes a better finished job...
...
I am contemplating a full body roll cage/fairing for this bike... something that would be light and keep the rain off... I have had a vision sense I was a Kid of a cycle-car  this would Not be it, but
the next step in motorcycle fairings... something  almost weather proof...
going completely weather proof is taking the idea to the absurd I think , but with a covering kind'a like the TRON Light-cycle to shield you from rain at the stop light and splashes from the side (mostly) I think it would be really neat to ride in the winter time...compared to a normal machine !
the problem is making it Light enough and strong too
I'll probably be playing with the idea for a long time ...LOL
...
Bob...

[Bob]

its STILL raining ! AURGH !
...
well I got the head all cleaned up... removed the carbon from the head and valves...
burning all that oil it was BLACK as an old pot ! heheheh
...
 nuthin' else I can do but wait for no rain !
....bummer deal dude!
...
Bob......

[Manta]

Bob,

....and rings are designed to rotate around the piston ...

Not so.  In fact some it would be possible for all the ring gaps to line up if they did; not a good thing to happen.

Many years ago I was fired from an engine rebuilding company because I had supposedly put a full set of rings in upside-down;  which necessitated a rebuild due to the oil burning.  It wasn't until weeks later that I realised I had been of work when they were fitted. So I got burned for someone else's mistake.  Bummer.

Dave
(Manta)

[randy]

Yeah I was going to say something but didn't, lol, some rings have a dimple that faces up, some have a beveled edge on the inside that faces down, I prefer good old iron rings, a lot of the newer stuff uses chrome rings for faster break in and less ring to wall friction for better gas mileage, torn a few down that I swear you could tie the compression rings in a knot without breaking. lol

[Bob]

I've hurd both cases and it really doesn't matter, as long as they don't adhear to the piston all the way around !  LOL
....
when I was working for Motosport in Reno NV. I did a complete tear down on a Kawasaki H1 500cc tripple
...they leaked oil notoriously from the case bolts all the time and I told the guy that he would have to re torque the case half bolts... he looked like a compitent fella so I let it go at that
 about a week later I got called into the owners office and was told that that bike leaked all the oil out of it and stranded the guy in hawthorn nv. on his way to vegas.  I asked the owner if the guy re torqued the case halves like I told him to and he said he would check.
the company was SUED by this guy and I was "LET-GO" but the owner would not stand by his mechanics... he said the customer is always right...  I was the only mechanic there on an Hourly wage, everyone else was on a commission basis and making a Killing compaired to me because I got the big jobs not the easy stuff.... but even that I expected the owner to be on my side.  but he wasn't
 I asked the owner  what do you think I could have possably have done to make that bike leak out all the oil ?   he couldn't answer, I told him if the owner didn't re-torque those nuts on the bottom of the engine then Yes it probably did exactly what he is saying... they are notorious for leaking, your a Kawasaki dealer YOU should know that much ! ... needless to say that didn't go over real well.
but I became the fall guy and they put some Kid in my place doing what I was doing and he was complaining the first week.... man everyone is making lots of money but me !  I told him good luck but don't expect the owner to side with you when one comes back !...
... I had had enough of motorcycle mechanics for a while and went to work at Vista equipment after that... fixing tractors ! LOL
...
the life of a mechanic is a thankless one.... because when the muffler bearing breaks  you were the last one to work on it so its your fault ! LOL
... I fixed my grandpaw's car  ONCE.... ( tuned it up, it was running like shit!) a few days later the muffler fell off and he drug it all the way home.... called me and was mad as a hatter... I don't know what you did to my little car but you broke it !  get over here and fix it... I flat told him that wasn't my fault, I didn't touch his muffler and I'll never work on his car again! ...never did either!
.... people are strange that way ! LOL
...
Bob.......

[Bob]

welp, I got it to run again.... still need to replace a bolt that holds on the muffler... it sheered off when I took it off !
...
I can't tell if its not smoking yet but it did smoke like a sun of a gun when I first fired it up
.... but then its supposed to when there is oil all over everything in there ! LOL !
...
I had to time the cam twice.... the first time I got it 180deg out ! LOL
so I popped the valve cover off and re did it correctly....
  I purposly left the oil line loose on top of the cylinder so I could be sure the oil was pumping good
that happens to be on the right side, when I started it I was on the left side and didn't notice the oil running all over the place till I turned it back off  and I thought "Oh ICK what NOW ?" and then I remembered the loose line ! ...no doubt about it it Pumps oil real good! LOL
...
the engine seams crisper even without the exhaust pipes on it.... the way it feels now is alot stronger... we shall see !
....
I am constantly amazed at that beast it is without a doubt a monster ! what I used to call an animal in my younger years ! HEHEHHEHE  but I used the term Animal for large 2 stroke machines that would wheely at the blip of the throttle in the first 3 gears hehehhe  this thing seams to like to do that only with perfect timing and on the pavement only.... on the dirt it will break loose usually
 a friend of mine had a 360MX Yamaha that he wanted me to port and polish for him... which I did.
what a major change in performance! that machine was a true Animal after that .... it would go up anything if you had the guts to try  !  I found them at the lake one time when I was out riding and they were Hill climbing , well My poor bike didn't stand a prayer but I made it up about 1/2 way
and one other guy with a Kawasaki 250cc Rotary disk valve that I had extended the rear swing arm for him (we called him Hill-climber) he made it up the hill but the guy on the 360 just couldn't make it
... he said Darn It ...I know this bike can go up that...  I said I'm sure it can man go for it!
he said Nah I've tried all day and can't make it.... you try it! ... I said OK !
... I got on that thing and away I went ...got almost to the top and had to throttle back and that was too much , it just dug a hole then.... getting down was a thrill... it usually IS!  but I tried it again and just blipped the throttle at near the top to keep the front from coming too far up... and I sailed over the top about 6ft off the ground ! ...
 that was a memorable experience !  and I have no doubt this bike out here with the knobbies on it would make it up that hill... but I ain't going to try it any time soon that is too frigging steep !
...
...
Anyway.... it runs again.... will it still smoke ?  time will tell,  I expect it will a bit
but it can't smoke as bad as it was ! LOL !
...
Bob....

[randy]

sounds like we had similar childhoods, from about 6 or 7 years old I don't remember not having a motorcycle, first one was a honda 50 mini trail, had knobs where the handlebars hooked up, you could loosen the bars and fold them down and throw the bike in just about any car trunk. next was a honda sl100, ran the livin pi-- outta that thing, then I had a 125 yamaha mx, when you got into the power band you could shift as fast as you could, not sure how fast the thing went but it seemed it'd get there in about 3 seconds lol, then the yz400, that thing shoulda killed me, closest thing to a rocket launch I'll ever experience, that thing had some serious suspension travel with that monoshock, blipped the throttle going over a steep faced jump a few times, jumped soo high I thought "this is going to hurt" but came down unscathed, that bike is now owned by one of my cousins and still runs. 250 elsinore mono was next, that thing was actually faster then the yz and much much lighter, it'd climb just about any hill, I think the lighter weight had a lot to do with that, used to ride over picnic tables, large douglas fir coal decks, my last dirt bike was a 1000cc Harley xlch hahahaha the low center of gravity on that thing made me untouchable on the logging roads, no one could even come close to keeping up with me, one time we left the house together heading up to elochamin lake, about 25 miles of logging roads, there were 5 of us 4 on 250 thru 400cc dirt bikes and me on the harley, robert hollers "see ya when ya get there" and took off, so I took him on the inside of the next corner and twisted the wick all the way to the lake, I shut down the bike at the lake thinking I should be able to hear them coming up the canyon, nope silence for at least 5 minutes before I could even hear them, another 10 minutes before they got there. that thing was the best on the logging roads, then I spent 8 years in the army, bought another harley, fxe 1200 rode that thing for 7 years, went coast to coast twice on it, I wasn't your typical harley rider for the time, kept my hair short, no tattoos, shaved face, never was a partyier, so pretty much rode alone except for a few, Jumbo, a school shop teacher, he rode a 67 panhead, Mark, rode a dressed shovelhead, ,,

[Bob]

LOL
Yah  I think back at all the fun I had on bikes, and realise that most of it was at excessive speed !
and litterally dangerous as hell ! LOL   as I've gotten older I pushed the odds too far a few times
and made contact with the ground a few times... but even then I've been fortunate as to not have done that at top speed....
the fastest I have ever gone is 115mph and I did that just to see if it would do it!
I think that was on the 1100cc out there after I had it for about a year...it had more to give but I was in a deer area and the thought of contact with a deer at 100mph or above gives me cold chills
 I can imagine the paramedics trying to weed through the pieces and saying "Hay! here's a Man part!
no wait... its a deer rib...   hay whats this ? "....that'd make anyone think about slowing down !
 ...
 I never got into Harleys, only because they were so darn expensive! but I've always loved triumph and BSA bikes.... best handling machine I ever road was my Honda 500cc Interceptor, but the next in line was the Kawasaki 650cc W1... (BSA look alike)
...
 the most Memerable thing I did in my life was a coast run with my Uncle he was on his 450 Honda and I was on my Honda 305 Dream... we went down to see Grandma at Bakersfield,Ca. and then turned west
 for the coast... followed the coast up to Point arena and then cut back through Ukiah... then back to Redding,ca.  the first day was miserable ...our butts hurt so bad it was un real! by the 3rd day we were used to it LOL  if I remember correctly we put on close to 1500 miles all totaled and enjoyed every second of it BEFORE we hit the FOG.... and Froze our natural nasties off ! LOL
the Fog ended the fun so we cut back over the mountians on some old logging road... and finally got to Ukiah...and sunshine! hehehehehhehe
Hwy101 or Hwy1 what ever it is  is a fantastic road full of curves and cliffs over looking the ocean
with the occasional BMW sports car doing 4 wheel drifts around the corners.
( the 2 of us almost got taken out by some nut! but we dove to the right and missed him ...then had to stop and relieve ourselves !) LOL
...
well, I better get to drilling out that bolt if I wann'a ride that bike tomorrow! HAHAHHAHA
...
Bob....

[Manta]

So I guess you guys have read 'Zen and the art of motor cycle maintenance '

Dave
(Manta)


Motto Guzzi 850 3t Californian.

 

[Bob]

um nope can't say I have ...is it any good ? hehehehe
...
I got my bike back together last night and took it for a little jaunt this morning...
it still smokes a bit, but it doesn't look too bad now.  the Power has increased a bit and the noise from the top end has almost completely gone away.... so I did something right ! LOL
...
given some time running the smoking should let up a great deal as the cylinder/rings ware in
...
 there seams to be more bottom end in the machine now too.
...
 Manta   Motoguzzi's are as far as I'm concerned one of the best Touring machines in the world, BMW is right up there neck and neck with them !
 My Honda VT1100c Shadow Is a good touring machine as well but it is so ungodly Heavy that I haven't really used it lately... but a Diesel going by at 80mph in the other direction won't blow that bike off the road either.... in fact it just leans a bit and stays put...
my 650cc Thumper would change lanes !  LOL
.... I was going to ride the 1100 down to see my sister this summer but haven't got around to it yet...she lives North of Santa Rosa, Ca. but its a good 4hr drive in the truck to get there.
...I want to get my Butt used to sitting on it for 4 hrs at a time before I attempt that ! LOL
..
.
  One thing that gets me is when I see a Kid on a big Crotch rocket with "tennis shoes" on its all I can do to keep from yelling Get some boots you FOOL !....
 you can tell they've never layed it down on the street...or ate it on a corner !
 My Mother "god Rest her Soul" had a bum right leg because of a Honda 50cc and Jones valley road
she had on slip on tennies and was ground down to the bone on both sides of her ankle and the fall also broke the cartilage in her right knee... she was crippled for the rest of her life because of that... metal plates in her foot to replace the bone loss and surgery to remove the cartilage
made me think about falling down more !
she was just the passenger... Dad was driving and he rolled when they went down at about 45mph
Mom stiffened up and slid.... wrong MOVE!
 that pavement is mean sand paper and will chew you up real real FAST !
...
when I slid off the road , (not far from where they went down) I was going about 50mph on the 1100
and  it happened so fast there was no reaction TIME... IT WAS one blink of an eye and I was tumbling on the ground.... getting up to speed with the tumbling was the hard part each time I touched the ground it removed flesh...through the gloves and leather jacket... and jeans but in about 3 revolutions I was spinning so fast I just tucked in my arms and waited for it to stop....
... my injuries were minimal... it hurt like Bloody hell but nothing was broken
... and I had my boots and leather jacket on ( yes in the heat of summer)
  I cannot imagine going down at 60~65mph without protection.... that would really Hurt!
...I say that but my jaunt this morning was with helmet, boots gloves and t-shirt & jeans...
so even I take the comfortable route some times ! LOL
 ...
Bob...

[randy]

Yep, that's the thing about motorcycles, if ya haven't ate it your gonna. lol, I've lost track of how many times I went down, this time of year wet leaves on a corner will get ya.

[Manta]

I always wear a helmet,  even in places where I don't legally have to.  My old helmet had a gash down the side due to coming off.  If it hadn't been for the hard hat I would be short of a left ear,  and maybe the head it is attached to.

Going back to this oil business.
I read a book written by a lady pilot who used to ferry single engined 'planes across the Atlantic. As many of them were only used occasionally by their owners they tended to be somewhat glazed up.  So the procedure was to thrash them up and down the coast line checking the oil consumption until it had stabilised and the amount likely to be used could be calculated. Mid Atlantic is the wrong place for the oil pressure to fade away.

Wish I still had my Guzzi.  But times got hard,  so it had to go.  I'd have to sell an arm and various other parts to get another like it.  But man,  was it heavy.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

LOL HAHHA !
 Whatt'a ya mean wet leaves ? heck dry ones are death on a corner! even them thin pine needles
...
Around here you have to watch for gravel kicked up by kids taking the corner so fast in cars that they have to hang the wheels off the pavement and that throws gravel all over the road
 I've had my hart in my mouth more than once coming around a corner on this road only to find about 1/2 way through it that there is gravel all over it.... one time I slid into the oncoming lane before the tires grabbed on the old honda 90....
... back in those days I discovered the Perellii MT53 tire, those tires would hold on the corners better than any tire I had used  up to that point... and the tires I just got for the 650 LOOK alot like them, they lack the fine cuts in the tread, that the perellii had but I think they will last longer than they did too....
  Manta I bet you could get an old 'Guzzy fairly cheap now it just takes allot of lookin'
...
 One bike I've wanted sense the 1970's is the Kawasaki H2 750cc triple... that's the fastest bike I've ever road.... I tuned up one when I just was getting into the bike mechanic field in The Dalles Ore. and that thing accelerated so hard it almost pulled the handle bars out of my hands!
 LITERALLY !   I've had many machines but nothing has accelerated like that.
  although the Yamaha YZF650R is supposed to have 120hp at 347lbs and accelerate so fast you have to go back for your stomach ! .... but I've not ridden one yet , so I dunno.
 I road a Kawasaki 1200 6cyl inline with a turbo that was a 125hp machine, but it couldn't hold a candle to the 750 triple... the guys at the shop couldn't believe me, that was the meanest thing they ever road , and I had to laugh...yah it was fast but no way near as quick as the H2 750
...
Being a 2 stroke fanatic, I simply love large 2 stroke engines...but the older I get I find I'm more relaxed not listening to a tight turning engine....High RPMS anymore make me loose sleep !
hehehehehe
that is another reason I chose the XR650L honda...4 cycle and single cylinder is just plane fun...
chugging around is fun...much better than the Buzz of 2 cycle machines
...
 I live not far from Back-bone Road , which goes all the way to Burney... a good 75miles away  on old logging roads... ya can't corner very good on a dirt road unless your flat tracking it... and I never was very good at that stuff....had fun trying to be though ! LOL
...
Those CAN AM trikes sure look neet don't they ?  did you know they have to have a special breaking system on them to prevent them from swapping ends when the breaks are applied hard ?
a trike wants to go with the single wheel first.... and sense the CAN AM has the duel wheels first its inherently un stable, however they got around that by keeping the rear wheel from locking up in a panic stop.... cured the problem.... but a layer of ice is another story !
....
 I've tried to find a trike kit for my 1100cc for a long time now and they are just way too expensive.... and not available for the 1100 honda... for the gold wing they are though.
... I was even contemplating taking the rear-end out from under the Pinto station wagon up the hill and shortening it and using it to replace the rear wheel on the 1100... but that is a bunch of work and I dunno if its actually worth it .
...I had a trike kit on a DT1 250cc yamaha it was a blast let me tell you... but you had to have arms like a bull ape to steer it!   and I am sure the 1100cc would be WORSE !
...but for road use it might be ok.... put a box on the back for groceries and all that ...it might make a good addition to have ! at 40~45mpg its better than my car or truck ! LOL
...
...
Bob....

[Bob]

Hummmm
 something is amiss... the bike is smoking fairly bad at mid RPM, with no load.
I dunno what the cause is but I know it "shouldn't" be the rings now...
I'm thinking it might be one of the carb hoses on the Emission control CRAP on this thing
it might be sucking up oil from one of those hoses because of the removal of the canaster (the previous owner removed it).... which may be the reason it seized up in the first place ! or got real close to it
...
 So ... time to do some book learnin' and see what I can find in the Hoses on the carb and blow-by
venting system....I bet I will find the problem there!
...
 the thing to do with the XR650L when you get it is to remove the canaster and re-jet the carb because its set to run too lean for the emissions check, and it looks like that has been done already because the Main jet is bigger in size than stock.
However... looking on the web a week or so ago I never did see anything on what to do with the HOSES
 these were still on the machine but one was left dangling... I plugged it and that is when I noticed the smoke starting to get bad.....
 Hmmmmmmmm !
... maybe that line needs to be vented!
... it would be typical that ..."that is all it is.... or has been ! "  LOL
...
Bob........

[randy]

usually the crankcase is vented into the air intake somehow, if you plug that one it'll build crankcase pressure using lots of oil and smoke like mad.

[Bob]

Yah ... that's what I was thinking but the crankcase vent is un obstructed as close as I can tell.... I haven't pulled the hose off and put my finger over the hole yet, but you can bet I will !<GRIN>
...
  I can't think of anything that would make it pump oil out EXCEPT the crankcase ventilation at mid range.... and if the pressure is building up inside it could push oil down past the valve guide seals or past the piston rings... and do it easily... and that is what it is acting like....
not low compression .
there is a vent on the valve cover that goes directly to the oil tank and a vent that goes from the bottom end up and over the back of the engine that hose has a rubber flapper valve on its end
the top hose is clamped solidly to the oil tank.....
 Hay I'll take the cap off the oil tank and see if it still smokes !
that might tell me something...
 I already pulled out the plug on the carb vacuum line that I plugged... no change.
...
there isn't enough info on the Hoses on the carb to tell where their supposed to go... its frustrating! but I think I have them hooked up right.
...
there might be a check valve in the oil tank return line that is stuck or something...
I'll go pull the cap and start it... I hope I don't get covered in oil ! LOL
....
Bob...

[Bob]

I just did that test ... and the results are even more confusing! with the oil tank cap off the bike smokes bad at IDLE ! put the cap back on and it clears up ...
...
 but I think I understand what is going on.... I think it simply has too much oil in it!
I'm going to drain oil out of the oil tank tomorrow and get the level of oil down about 1/2 way on the stick....
 the way they have arranged the return system on the oil means that the engine will return oil only when the engine is completely full.... this makes sense... but gives you a inaccurate reading on your oil level ! ...
 I came home a while back after a good hard run on the bike and discovered the engine was out of OIL !
.... it probably wasn't at all.... then I added 3/4 of a quart of oil  and filled it up...
started the engine and let it idle a few, turned it off and checked the oil again and it was way over full ! ... ok so I drained out some oil...
 fired it up again and then checked it  and it was up to the full mark again!  I drained out a small amount  again...  making the oil level at about 1/2 the stick....
 and of course its smoking bad ... when I just did this test the oil level is at the full mark AGAIN!
.... the oil is filling the lower engine for some reason... and then being pumped out up to the reserve tank ... evidently it still has way too much oil in it !  ....
  this is totally Bizzar! what a goofy system !
  I guess I gott'a be smarter than the oil can!
...I didn't read anywhere where the oil has to be checked with the engine running...but with that kind of a system maybe it does ( it is a "Dry Sump" )
LOL
Bob

[randy]

might be a really dirty oil filter, you'll need to figure out where it's at to change it, I've seen some with a sock inside the crankcase, you can't just change those.

[Bob]

I already put in a new oil filter, its in the right side plate on the bike IN the engine.
but I just read that there is a oil line screen that needs to be cleaned periodiocly... bet its never been cleaned !
...
the manual did say how to check the oil... to my surprise ! 
supposed to check it in 2 places the one place on the engine side plate is a level indicator
and the other is the dip stick by the gas tank...
 it also said to let it drain for a good 5 minutes before you check the oil after running it....
something I have not been doing...
 I'll attack it in the morning and see what I can find.... I can almost guarantee you it has too much oil in it !  ... and that is the smoking cause!
.... I will pull the bolt on the engine side and drain out all it will give me and then see whats up!
... if that empties the oil reservoir I dunno what I'll do ! LOL ! its not supposed to ! LOL
... more than likely that will drain out about 1 qt of oil which means I over filled it by that much
and of course its going to smoke like that ! HEHEHEHEHHE
 damm DUMMY anyway ! LOL
...new fangled contraptions any Hoo !
Bob....

[Bob]

Ok ...I "THINK" that cured the problem...
I checked the oil, it was down about 1/2 way ... I left it that way!
 then I pulled the oil level bolt on the right side side plate to check the oil level in the engine and it of course started draining out (over full) as I thought it might be.
 I let it drain for a good 15 minutes until it finally stopped dripping, put the bolt back in, checked the oil tank and it was still where I left it...
 I fired up the bike , and at first it smoked quite a bit...but it slowly lightened up...
I went down and checked the mail in the mail box, 2 miles away and my parts arrived, <GRIN>!
coming back soon as I got moving I goosed it and the front wheel bounced up a bit and away I went.
the acceleration is good and fast and looking back there was some smoke but not the cloud of before...
so I think it will burn off all that oil and  thin out... but I'm not so sure... when I parked it I reved it to mid range and it started billowing smoke again just like it had...
I really do not know what to think.
...
I've done cleanup-repair jobs before on bikes and never encountered the same problem again after the fact... perhaps the rings are too weak to seal it good , or maybe that tiny scratch in the cylinder wall is pumping out more oil than I give it credit....
or ...maybe I just need to run it and burn out that oil so it will stop smoking !
...
 it definately has more power than before the repair job.... but I can't abide that smoking!
its not a 2 stroke thats loaded up real bad... and that is what its smoking like ....
... why mid range RPM pumps out the oil into the cylinder is really strange !
... gott'a think on it.

You guys have any ideas ?

Bob....

 

[randy]

new rings buddy, when they gall they'll wear in one or two spots if ran for any length of time, after opening the groves on the piston the rings spring out but will never seat properly again, seen several other people do the same thing you did, sure it'll run better but the rings don't scrape the oil from the cylinders properly. Galled rings will cause piston slap, pretty noisy and aids the uneven wear on the rings. I'd do a top end rework on it, new valve seals, check valve seats and faces, grind if needed, a single thin scrape on the cylinder wall won't cause much oil usage, the new rings will usually break in and seal it up anyway. new rings have a frosted appearance on the edge that makes contact with the cylinder, this breaks in and becomes shiny after use just like the cylinder.

[Bob]

hummm  I think your right Randy.... I know I should'a replaced them when I had it apart the first time
...to do it right I should replace piston wristpin and rings (piston pin cer-clips too)
the wrist pin is badly gaulled  although I smoothed it out, the piston has the matching gaul and there really is no fixing that,,,and yes I hear piston slap in the thing periodically 
so I'll order the parts come the first of the month... till then I'll run it and see if I can get it to seat in the rings...
.... Honnestly I have never tried to re use old parts on a 4 stroke thumper before... 2 stroke singles you can do that and get away with it if their in fair shape....never tried it on a machine like this before hehehehhe... live and learn I guess !
...
no biggie, I had it apart before I can certainly do that again !
I'll lap in the valves  put in new valve guide seals and replace the piston pin and rings and slap it back together.
 I may not start that job for a while though as rain is going to be upon us shortly and I don't like leaving an engine open to the weather !
....
..
 Oh I tried to remove the oil line Screen to clean it and cannot get it off !  which is a bad sign
i may seriously have to devote some time to that problem
...
Bob....
 

[Bob]

LOL  the more I think about it the more I know your right Randy 2 points for your side!
 I got thinking about it and the reason I got away with such "re-using old parts" was because it was on 2 strokes... they definately operate on the oil and gas bing mixed in the lower crank area, so it can LEAK and it'll never know the diference!
... however on a 4 stroke the cylinder has to be wiped clean every time the piston triverses the stroke
or it will burn too much oil.... even a small amount of oil is a bunch of smoke...
and like you said, if the rings were stuck and used that way they are worn un even and that means gaps around the paramiter of the ring that do not touch the cylinder wall. even just slightly missing that wall will be a bit of oil that has to burn away after each firing of the piston, and oil does not burn up fast at all.... a small amount will smoke for a very long time
 so YAH... its gott'a be the rings !
 I'll pull the piston and all soon and then take that compression ring and incert it into the cylinder just for kicks and see if I can see light around the outside edge.... I bet ya money I can, surely it won't be much, but it doesn't take much !
...
I priced a after market piston set std size and from Wisco... they are on back order at the moment at Bikebandit.com but I can get the top end parts for $181.89   the problem is it plainly says some pistons come with the wrist pin and some don't and I definately want to replace that piston pin.
.... I remember back when you could get a piston for $25.00 for a DT1 yamaha   that same piston now costs over $90.00 !  and a set of rings was $10.00...now its $36.95  !!!!!
and if you want a big shock go price parts for the Honda Shadow 1100cc... their adding $100.00 to every part just because it is a VT1100c  .... I mean a silly radiator on off switch, tat costs $5.00~ $8.00 at auto zone for any car, costs $85.00 for my big bike ! ... so I put an alligator clip on it and attach it at will ! LOL
...
never ceases to amaze me how much some people charge for parts.... and its nothing but pure greed
....
Any way thanks for the input Randy !
been a mechanic all my life but never tried to re use old piston rings before on a 4 stroke....
 guess I won't do that one again ! LOL !
...
Bob.......

 

[randy]

hey, wont hurt to ride it that way, just carry an extra sparkplug and a wrench.

[Bob]

lol yah but if you've ever tried to remove a sparkplug from one of these things you'ed know my RELUCTANCE!   you can't reach the plug at all its all done by magic!  and the plug is recessed into such a tight fit only the "HONDA tool" will reach it ( when I have the head off I am going to cure that problem so a normal spark plug socket will fit it! ) ( if I can find some way to mount it on my milling machine!, that is. )
....
on the XR650L you really have to take off the air scoop on the left side to be able to get to the spark plug... that's only 3 Allen head screws so its not too bad , but you can't do it fast
and if the engine is hot you'd best forget it for a while
....
besides I took great care to de-carbon the top end  I don't want to carbon it up real bad again !
 hehehehehe
... besides I got some Black paint that I am going to re-paint the thing with... (I don't like the red and white ).... LOL
...
hehehe

Bob...

[Bob]

well I got the bike tore down again.... heads off and on the bench
I know I didn't run it very long, but geez everything is still shinnie like I left it ! LOL
I probably only put 3 miles on it after the re assembly but usually things crud up faster than that !
...especially when your burning oil !
...
anyway tomorrow I'll pull the cylinder and piston off (and see how the rings look in the cylinder just for S&G's )
 ...
 I had trouble with one bolt although I finally got it off I broke the valve cover in the proccess, the damage is probably minor but I want to see if I can glue or weld the chip back on... its the outside of the bolt hole about 1inch long and I broke about 3/4 of it off... leaving nothing for the head of the bolt to hold on to....  well about half the hole is still there and half the hole is chipped off...
the silly 8mm bolt just would not come off and I had to use the chissle to dog ear the side of the bolt and then tap it with the hammer till I got it to turn... in the proccess the side broke off the bolt hole...
  Now I think I could J.B.Weld it back on there and it would be fine... or I could rey to weld the piece back on with DC and aluminum rod... though that is not my first choice.
or I could make a larger washer to over hang the metal that is there and perhaps pin it on to the cover.... or just a plate and rivet/bolt it on there.... or get a new one from cycle salvage hahaha
...
I think the J.B.Weld is the way to go ... at least for the first try <grin>
...
I've had real good luck using J.B.Weld on bikes in the past, from broken side plates to holes busted in the bottom of the crankcase.... they all held ! so I think this will be easy peezy for it.
especially sense the all important gasket surface isn't damaged....its just a chip out of the side of a bolt hole.   but it renders the bolt useless unless repaired in some way
...I'll think of something have no fear!
hehehehe
...
Bob...

[crb]

Well that sux.  Broken parts are a bummer.
One of these days I'll have to address my stripped sparkplug,
but it's holding for now. LOL
crb

[randy]

been there done that lol, I took a flat washer and folded the edge 90 deg, then ground it until it fit the area that was broken off once on a dirt bike, worked great and held tight.

[Bob]

thanks for the help  I appreciate it.
...
 now to get that piston off ! c ya later!
...
Bob...

[Bob]

note to self ...remember there is bolts that hold the cylinder DOWN under the head gasket ! ...Sigh!
...
anyway.. I got the cylinder off, I thought the coppercoat was really fighting me... only to realise I had left 4 bolts in there holding down the cylinder! ... DUH !
...got the cylinder off and cleaned up a bit... I took the top compression ring off the piston and then took all the rest of the rings off so I could use the piston to posistion the ring...
 with the ring in there the 1st time there was an obvious flattening on one side that spanned a good inch and a half...  almost 1/2 the way around the cylinder...
 took the ring out and put it in again and no gap at all... but the END gap of the ring was opened up to almost 1/8" ! LOL....
 out of 3 times I put the ring in the cylinder I saw the irrigularity only one time... the other times it just showed a large end gap on the ring...
... ofcorse the large gap on the Ring end gap is probably enough to cause the oil consumption !
I got to looking at the rings by eye and held them up to the blue sky ant the compression ring is not uniform.... its thinner in width on the side oppisit the end gap... and thats not good at all
there is only a few shinnie marks down the cylinder wall it almost looks like its scratched but its not.... it tried to break in but it didn't get very far.... (I will give it a quick hone job for the new rings.)
...
 I plan to replace the piston and rings and piston pin if I can get them from Wisco.
if not I may just go with a new set of rings  and call that good enough... haven't really decided yet
I gott'a wait to order the parts when the moneys in the bank anyway ! hehehehe

...
I will have to get a cam chain spring... I inadvertently bent it on assembly last time... <slaps self>
... there is no good way to put the can chain tension-er in there.... they mention a special tool
but if you don't have it simply wire the spring to the compressed state and then insert it, then clip the wire.... well that doesn't work either because you can't clip the wire OR get the wire out once you do that... I'll give the "Special tool" a better look and see if I can rig one up this time.
....the "special Tool" looks like a simple rod that goes in a hole... but I cannot see how that is going to hold the spring in any form LOL... heck a drill bit will fit the hole!
... oh well we'll see.
...
 time to do some heavy reading on the manual,
...
Bob...

[Bob]

LOL well I finally got the Oil line strainer off cleaned and back on.... it wasn't very dirty like I thought it would be... in the process I drained the oil from the tank and the motor.
  I also discovered that the reason I couldn't get the "wire TRAP" to work on the cam chain tension-er was it has to be wired exactly in the picture to work !  I have it wired back now after straightening the spring's end and its setting on the bench... waiting for some noisy pussycat to come and trip it!
 its an accident waiting to happen ! LOL definitely a rat trap!  it took me about 1hr to wire that silly spring back ... GEEZ ! now that I got it wired I'm scared to touch it !HAHAHAHA!
...
 I took off the crash pan on the bottom of the engine... figured I don't need it with all that ground clearance... its not like I'm going to bottom it out!... if in the future I start going over logs I'll put it back on, but right now its just added weight...about 5~8 lbs.(without counting about 2 pounds of crud on it ! LOL !)
 ...
a while back I bought some bolt extractors that are to take off rounded off bolts... I checked the sizes and the smallest is 8mm.... perfect for the pesky valve cover bolts !
so I tried the 2nd largest on the oil screen but then couldn't turn it...so I had to use the hammer and chisels and dog ear it and smack it till it broke loose... that accomplished and re-assembled
 I gave up for the night.
 I watched a TV movie on the Baja 1000 race... I always wanted to run that race just to see if I could finish it! LOL but never did.... this covered the 2 top guys on Honda's team and they both were riding the XR650R bikes... and I have to say those guys are NUTS ! one guy got out on the beach and was doing 115mph and got within 30 seconds of the other guy that was in the lead had to drive 40 miles with a flat tire which slowed him down but he would have passed him if the tire hadn't gone flat
... then it turned night and the camera on the bike was scary to watch ! those boys don't go slow for anything!   sure enough "Mouse" ate it hard trying to catch the guy in 1st place and broke a wrist cracked some ribs and in general beat the living snot out'a him.... he came limping in later that night with the help of another fella...I guess when he crashed it took out his headlight and all he had was helmet lights ... so he followed the other guy in !
... I have seen some wild riding in my time but I remember slowing down when you can't see whats ahead!  but not these guys they just keep the power on and Hope nothing is in the way !
...
 they showed him "Mouse" going through deep dust and I saw trouble coming a long way away ! and sure enough too much speed and too deep of dust and  the bike starts to boat accross the dust and there is no traction and down you go... the poof of dust was indeed spactatular ! but he didn't go all the way down...just turned kind'a sideways to the direction he was going and came to a complete stop....guess he was expecting it too and zoom away he went ! it looked like a bomb went off ! LOL
....and this streek comes zipping out of it !  really amazing the way those whippersnappers can ride these things !  LOL  I couldn't even keep him in sight with binoculars!  LOL
...
 80~90mph on a rocky dirt road does not make for fun to this old man !  cut that in half maybe! HAHAHAH and I'd really be smoking !
...
 strangely enough the only problem they had with either bike was tires... one bent front rim and flat tire on front slowed him down a bunch ... and then another flat on the rear...
his pit crew had him going in something like 3 minutes replaced both wheels and gearing and he had some food and back at it again!
...
 probably a good thing I never tried to enter the race because it would have been disillusioning !
seeing all the people start and only a few finish ... its definately an tough race!
...
 I'll stick with my country roads and logging roads thank you very much ! hehehehe
...
kind'a neet to see what my bike can do  in the right hands !  Gracious! that moo moo can move!
...
Bob...
 
 

[Bob]

 I was going to wait till the first of the month to order my parts but I remembered it will take them a week at the very least to get them to me  so I just ordered the parts
 new STD piston and rings,piston Pin, sir clips to hold the piston pin in.
and a cheepo air filter at $11.95... they want over 50 bucks for an air cleaner for that thing!
I found a after market supplier that makes air filters for it however.
the foam filters were rather spendy as well so I just went with the cheap one.
...
the question now is  do they have the parts on hand or will they have to order them from Japan !
... I wanted a Wiseco piston for it , but even Wiseco didn't have them ...every one is on back order... even the company that makes them ! !!!!!! Go figure!
...
so I got the OEM Piston and rings and pin...
...I can't wait to get that monster running again! LOL
...
 now.... here's the bad news...$233.00 for a frigging piston&Rings !
Kriminetly ! their not made of GOLD!..... OOOOUCH  ! I think My Sister is right... I NEED a "Stainless steel butt-shield"!   heheheheheh


Bob....

 

[randy]

guess I'd have been a cheap skate on that one, I would have used the scuffed one lol. Now if you had the cylinder bored I'd get a new piston. built some race engines years ago, you want them loose, we used the original pistons, bored the cylinders for .010" clearance where normally you'd want .004" then I knurled the piston skirt to prevent piston slap, this actually helps prevent galling of the piston in a race engine. when you get that thing running you need to find out what caused the damage so it doesn't happen again, that piston got hotter then it should have and swelled causing the scuffing.

[Bob]

Kneralled the skirt ? that's a new one !
...
I'm fairly certain the guy ran it without OIL in it Randy.... when I got it there wasn't a drop of oil in it....
...
he obviously Lied about taking it to a mechanic to have him look inside the cylinder with his scope and everything was ok in there.... LOL
...
well at $108.00 for the piston it really does hurt ! but there is a great deal of SLOP between the piston and cylinder ... much more than I am used to dealing with !
 Wiseco had a standard size piston for $89.00 but they were out of them as well.... seams NO body has pistons for them.... even the OEM part has been BACK ORDERED and will take about 1~4 days more to get it.
 it looks like they are going to hold the entire order till the piston comes in.... though that doesn't bother me at all.
...
I am hoping new rings will cure the end-gap problem in the rings if not I'll have to have it bored out and wind up getting new stuff AGAIN!  aurgh !
.
...I remember when you could get a piston for a DT1 250cc Yamaha for $25.00  now its over 100 bucks
.... whats the world coming to when it costs so much to play with TOYS ?lol
...
Bob......

[Manta]

Over here Skirt knurling was popular for a while back in the 'seventies. People used to use it to quiten down the piston slap when they wanted to sell a car.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

humm i bet that would make my old piston usable again <grin>
but sense I bit the bullet and bought a new one I'll wait for it to come in hehehehhehehe
....
I'm painting the entire bike Black.... every bike I've ever owned has eventually wound up being BLACK for some reason, so I guess I expect the thing I ride to be BLACK ! I don't know ! LOL
anyway it does look allot better... I still have the gas tank and side plates to paint but that's not a problem, I'll probably get that done tomorrow!
....
I just put in a shelf in the bathroom...still got 2 more to do but I'll do that later !
.... don't do today what you can put off till tomorrow! LOL
...
....
and I'm not going to mess with the valve guide seals... they look fine
... if it still smokes to high heavon I don't know what I'll do ... probably use 6 sticks of dynamite and see if I can launch it to the moon !  HAHAHHAHA
...


Bob...

[Bob]

KOOL my parts arrived !
and WOW was my old piston WORE OUT !  man what a difference !
the new rings fit with about .020" (eyeball) end gap and everything is persision fit ! the wrist pin slides in and out without having to be helped!  just gravity....and the new rings have Marks on them to show what side is UP !  LOL
.... with the old piston there was allot of twist in the bore the piston skirt was so worn... this new piston has none of that and man what a nice fit !
...
problem is its COLD outside so I may wait till morning to put the cylinder on...
...
 the other day I swapped handlebars from my RL250 Suzuki, and put them on the XR650L because they are taller handlebars.... I had to drill and tap the handle bar ends so I could still have the strong hand guards on there....  and man am I glad I did I put the seat on it and sat on it with the new bars on and what a difference it has made !    I should even be able to use the Mirrors which only showed my for-arms before ! LOL
... everything is painted now too so only thing left to do is assemble it and give it a test run!
... I can hardly wait ! ... I feel like a Kid with a new toy ! HAHAHAHAH!
...
Bob....

[Bob]

OOOOk ! well got it all back together except the air scoops, seams I can't have them on and the taller handle bars too.... as the throttle and clutch and choke cables are just a tad too short
.... decades ago you could put on taller handle bars and never notice it on the cables !  ....times are a changing!
....
anyway... fired it up. runs like a top.... better than before and its QUIET now in the top end....
no piston slap or cam chain rattling.... I can't even hear the tapits ! ( I'll re check the tapit clearance after I run it down to the mail box and back (2 miles away)
....its got 2 complete quarts  of oil in it now.... it was low after I ran it for a bit ...over to the end of the property and back then let it set for a while....
I believe it holds 1.9 quarts but I'll lave to look to be sure...
....I can't get over how fast it starts now... pull the choke lever and hit the starter button and its instantiously idling.... no gringing of the starter at all LOL   I like that !
.... NO smoke either ! as far as I can tell it looks real clean now.
....
before when I lugged it down to turn around and come back to the house from the other end of the property it rattled quite bad... this time there was no rattling at all !  I'm quite pleased about that !  <GRIN>
....
however...
 i sheared off a bolt on the valve cover putting it back together....
no oil leak yet.... but I expect it will leak given time....
hard to say how difficult that will be to get out... but I expect I may have to remove the head to fix it ! ....
if it don't leak oil  I'll just run it like that ! LOL
....sure sounds good now.... like a new bike !
...I haven't ridden it that much yet but I already like the taller handle bars that should make the bike feel better.... better control and all that !
....
only took me about 3/4 of the day to put it all back together... took the wife out to a late lunch early dinner and finished up when I got back.
....
the more I play with that bike the more I like it ! LOL
...
Bob....

[randy]

a good running 650 thumper should be able to scare the hell outta ya, if that bolt broke off close to the bolts head it'll come out easy. weather's been too nasty around here for a bike, but if I had one I'd probably ride it anyway lol

[Bob]

 I Just got back from a 8 mile jaunt... just testing it out real carefully...
the engine seams PERFECT now... and yes I am IMPRESSED its one good bike ! I'd recommend the XR650 Honda whole heartily !.
 with traction she will wheelie in 1st with just a twist of the throttle ... I've alwayse liked that in a bike... makes for a fun ride ! heheheheh
... usually on the dirt though it will break loose and just spin the rear tire, as expected...this is good though as that gives you better control of the thing... you don't want it too light in the front end ! HEHEHHEHE
... I just cruised at 55mph and I re set the trip odometer when I got back as I want to keep the RPM down till about 100 miles to break in the new top end.
...
 I don't think I've ever owned a more "manoeuvring" bike , except for the RL250 suzuki that my sister gave me.
but I really don't ride it because I still feel as its hers I just wanted to get it going for her again hehehehhehe.( I hate seeing a bike set un-loved! LOL)

...
 this XR650L seams to me to be the best COMBO  bike ever made... although the DT1 Yamaha was the first of its Kind it lacked HP, something this bike has plenty of...
I read somewhere that it only has something like 35 or 38 hp but the torque curve is way way up there.
it certainly feels like there is more power at hand than that.... I haven't found a place yet where I couldn't give it more throttle and go faster !
...
Bob...

[Bob]

I putted around on the property a bit today on the XR650L.... its supprising how easy hard terrain is to get over on that thing... obviously there is no hill on the property that could slow that beast down but going over small logs with that deep suspension is easy peezy !
  for putting around though it really needs to go a bit slower.... at least for this OLD MAN HAHAHHA
gearing it down by changing the front sprocket to a smaller one would indeed help that part allot
....
I ran it 3 times for about 10 minutes each.... enough to get it hot  but that's all
...
I fixed my rear-view mirrors last night at about 3:00am or so.... they were screwed together with wood screws in plastic and I tightened them down too hard and they stripped out.... so I re drilled the holes to a bigger size and used 3 machine screws and nuts to hold them together.... so now they stay PUT and don't work their way down to touching my hands  instead of being up where they should be ! HAHAHHA
 And ...I like the Color ! much better being Black than it was White ! because it just looks smaller and more compact !

all in all I think its done....  er close enough fer me anyway ! LOL
....
Bob...

[Bob]

I took the bike out for a ride this morning.... went to jones valley to get gas, I forgot they removed the gas pumps 30 years ago ! good greef! anyway I couldn't go out back bone road without more fuel so I went all the way to balla vista store and tanked up there... it took 1.5 gal and I think the tank holds 1.8 gal !  not sure on that but I think I was lucky to make it to the pump !
anyway I turned around and went back the way I came and just cruised along.... I decided to go home and let the bike rest a bit ...
 later I pulled it all apart and did a real thorough valve adjustment on it  ...glad I did as the tappets were a bit too wide. now their right on the money ! and there is no tappet noise at all when its running
....seams strange to me to hear a Honda with over head tappets that don't make noise but this monster is very quiet now.  before the top end job it made a racket when it ran.... not any more though !
....
  Randy you NEED one of these things ! it'll go places your truck wouldn't dream of.... if you don't freeze to death in the process ! LOL !
...
I also re routed the wires behind the seat and made it all neat and tidy   ...
the oil is staying fairly clean too, which is nice to see ! ...I even put the rear foot pegs back on !
in the hopes of getting the wife to get on it with me LOL (not very likely!)
...
Bob...

[randy]

all this motorbike stuff gave me the itch, probably going to the beach to pick up an older iron head xlch 1000 sportster tomorrow. if nothing else I should be able to sell it for twice what I'm getting it for.

[Bob]

oh HO ! that should be fun to play with ! if ya get it post a few pics of it please !  so we can see the before and after type thing !  thats always fun !  LOL
....
by the way... the XR 650 has ran like a top sense the new piston and rings were installed.... no smoking at all now ... I've only got about 25~30 miles on it so far( I think) but I have to think its the funnest bike I've ever owned ! its light and maneuverable,and just sips the gas... if it wasn't so darn tall I'ed call it perfect !  LOL
it is NO cruser ...no doubt about that... but as far as being a fun TOY to play with "ya kant beat it !" LOL
...
  once I'm on it and compressed the springs a bit its just about right
in height.... still a bit tall...for such a short fella !
but you have to consider this guy is used to the height of the DT1-250 yamahas as being about the right height off the ground !
... my 1100cc honda Shadow is something like 28" off the ground when I have it lowered as far as I dare.... after my tumble though I gave it more ground clearance just to be safe....so its probably 30~32" max.
I'm guessing but the seat on the XR is probably 34~36" when I'm on it
and thats after I lowered it a long way !  I needed a step ladder to get on it before ! HAHAHHAHAHA!
....what were they thinking
...
Bob....

 

[randy]

Well; got er home, it's a xlh 1000 not a xlch. so it's got a kick starter and an electric start, there's a short in the wiring, when I turn on the ignition the breaker pops, cools a bit and pops again, no power. the clutch cable is broken and the tranny is stuck in gear, nothing I haven't encountered before, actually the bike seems to be in pretty good shape, good compression, oil is clean, the lady I bought it from said it hasn't run since 2006, here's a couple pics, one of my dogs had to check it out too.

[randy]

and another, having to shrink by 50% twice to get them to post.

[Bob]

Wow ! that's in purdy darn good shape !  ...
the tranny stuck in geer scares me though ! that could mean allot of work and a complete tear down....  or something as simple as replace the clutch cable and bump it a few times and it may well pop loose !
...
 I bet your tickled pink !  looks like a good'en !
one thing I like about Harleys is their striength... their solid as hell !  very few bikes can boast that !  A Kid we helped raise in Nevada went into the marines and on leave came to visit us one time on his 1200cc sporster, he let me ride it and I was amazed at the solidity... the ride was a bit hard bit not overly so but the bike is made out'a steel not aluminum for the frame and there is NO flex at all in the cornors... that's a good thing!
... where as My 1100cc Honda is fairly solid but you can feel a slight sashay in the frame under hard cornoring...  although I havn't really taken that bike into the cornors like I used to do because of the massive weight... I just don't know how far I can push it till all that weight makes the entire bike slide sideways !
... I bet that thing just the way it sets will eat my Honda.... it looks fast ! LOL
and it looks LIGHT compared to mine ! LOL
....
  I expected to see something that the seat was all torn up and needed paint and all that
shoot that thing is ready to Ride ! ...
...
 from my experience with 4 speed harleys ( dunno about 5 spd) but the old 4 speed tranneys did get stuck at times and you could break them loose if you keep rocking/ bouncing it against the chain and moving the shifting lever at just the right time.
... trying to shift gears with no clutch will stick them like that.... if its Jammed inside real bad you'll play hell getting the case apart with it jammed...
no doubt you already know more than I do about harleys, I wish ya luck and hope you're riding it by next weekend !  LOL
...
and next time keep the front wheel straight... even if you have to leave the tailgate down !   .... slamming on the brakes with the front wheel in the cornor will break the straps ! .... won't do that if the wheel is straight !
... hehehehhe
Looking good Randy ! wish it were mine !   DROOL !
...
Bob....
   

[randy]

hahaha the thing was stuck in gear cause the shifter lever was against the case, went to unscrew the pinch bolt, got about 1 turn and it came out but I could still see the bolt sticking out the bottom, grabbed it with some pliers and got it out, moved the lever out on the shaft a little and click click, gears hahaha also found the short, brake switch wire rubbed bare, it's located under the sprocket cover so something probably got in there around the chain off the road. still couldn't get it to run but it did try once before I flooded it, there's a bunch of rubber type sealant over the mainjet plug on the carb, got to digging at it and out popped a cork lol, musta lost the gallery plug, if that mainjet isn't held down solid it'll get too much fuel, now to find a plug with that fine thread, I think I'll just go ahead and give it a full tune up set, points condenser plugs, pulled the timing plug and got the mark centered, the points are off quite a ways for correct timing. ordered a new clutch cable, primary gasket, tune up set, carb kit, and oil filter, I'll tear down the clutch when I get in there and make sure everything is good, then just so I know I'll rebuild the alternator and starter.

[randy]

Whoo hoo, it runs, gapped the points and radio timed it,"old trick" turned on the gas and cranked it with my finger over the mainjet gallery hole, fired right up, loud as hell but it ran lol.

[Bob]

HA HA !  Fanastic !
as you know .... Most people out there in the real world are super poor at maintenance and usually if you look close you can see where just a few hours of fixin' will cure most the problems...
  I dunno how much ya paid for it but no doubt it was worth every penny !  especially now that you got it shifting ok !
...
 so all you gott'a do now is get a battery, or  grow some big leg mussels so you can start that beastie !
...
are you going to have any problems getting the liscnses on that thing ?
...
it seams on my XR650L that I may have serious problems in that department...
there is a few of the California SMOG things Missing on the bike and if they check it isn't going to pass...( and I'm sure they will) so I am in a quandary at what to do about it.... so far there has been no real reason to liscnses it as I've just stuck to the back roads... but eventually I'll get nailed doing that and that hurts the pocket book even more than doing it properly ! ...
...
...
so the main jet in the carb isn't screwed in ?  that's odd !...but not un-hurd of ...
... how in the world did CORK get in there is there cork gaskets on the valve covers or something ?
...
 yah getting that thing timed right will make it start EASY !  I've seen more guys Kicking the shit out of Harleys because of the "TIMING" than any other problem... again
just a small amount of maintenance would cure that ! LOL
...
well, I am in the middle of hooking up the stove pipe for the wood stove... better get back to it.... I've already put it off for 2 years.... LOL
... catcha' later !
...
Bob.......

[randy]

Got a pile of receipts with it, one of them was a new battery, haven't tried kick starting it yet, clear title with bill of sale, should be no problem licensing it, still don't have to go through that smog stuff here, YET. looks to me they lost the gallery plug for the mainjet, so they glued a piece of cork in there, the original gallery plug is brass with a very fine thread and holds the mainjet tube in place, it's a Kehin carb that I never did like from past experience, so I'm going to remove it and throw it as far as I can into a thicket I have out back lol, nothing beats a Stromberg Bendix for a big twin, and I know where to get one cheap. I'm going to replace all the outer case phillips head screws with stainless allen screws, they all look buggered up, and I'm going to get new access plugs for the primary cover, looks like at one point a hammer was used to remove them, I remember one time I was pulling a clutch hub off an old panhead harley, that damn thing just wouldn't come off, after breaking a couple studs of the hub I took the kicker side off the tranny and remover the clutch rod so I could use a jaw type puller, cranked that puller down to the point that it started warping the hub?? I didn't want to destroy the $300 main shaft so I took the puller back off and put a large nut with a washer that I welded onto it on the shaft, cranked that puller back down to the point that I was scared of it lol, took a hammer and whacked the puller a couple times, POP!!! it came loose, still had to fight it a bit but finally got it off, instead of the half moon key there was a small rock shaped close enough that someone used it lol, probably along the side of the road somewhere, must have taken a while to find a rock just the right size because I tried the same thing after this, sheared a flywheel key on a dirt bike way up in the hills, miles of gravel roads with lots of small rock but I for the life of me couldn't find one to fit. lol

[Bob]

LOL  could be the person sat there grinding his own key out of stone so it WOULD fit !
.... I think I'd push it before I'd do that ! LOL
...
I've had my share of trouble trying to get magneto's off bikes ...even with the proper puller, some times their a SOB to get off !
... but I found the secret on the real stubern ones... HEAT !
get your puller on it and lot's of tension... strike up the torch and heat it till its so hot you can't touch it any more.... then smack it with a hammer !
never had it fail me yet !
... don't get it too hot though or you'll kill the magnets,...just high running temp !
...
I had a flywheel on a lawn tractor give me hell one time and I could not get it off !
broke the puller, had to stop and re-weld it...
and i complained on the phone to my Mother and she said Ken said to heat it !  so I knew Ken had been around the farm a few times so I tried it ....
it popped off with the first hammer strike ! ... took me hours to un mushroom the shaft from the puller though ! HAHAHHAHAHAHHA!
...
had a key get cut in almost half ...one time the bike was hard to start and ran great at top end but no guts on the bottom end at all... I checked the timing and it was off so far the points would not bring it in.... I thought that was weird so I took the flywheel off (magneto) and the key was off set by almost 1/2 the way through it... almost completely sheered but not quite !.... replaced the key with a new one and WOW did it start and run good after that ! HAHAHAHA!
much easier to set the points too !  HA !
...
I read ages ago that a 2 bbl webber carb is the thing for big V-twins supposed to give them allot more bottom end ! ...
 I'm so used to Mulkini carbs that I have trouble when I work on the tractor !
its got an old up draft stormburg carb on it and I keep looking for more parts to put in it.... but there just ain't any ! LOL !
...
I saw a Photo of a Hopped up Harley with a 2 bbl Holley carb on it ! that must'a been a bear to jet right but it did Run good !  a photo of him leaving showed nothing but tire smoke ! ... I guess it was Fast !  LOL   
...
 I've no desire to mess with the carbs on either of my bikes because they have more than enough power the way they are... for this o'l man !  LOL
....
sounds like your having allot of fun ! wish I was there to hurrass ya ! LOL
...
Bob....

[randy]

Wow, working on this bike brings back so many memories of when I worked on them for a living, 99% of the repairs I'm doing are caused by someone not knowing what they were doing, the end play on the output shaft was excessive so I pulled the tranny, all the correct shims were in there just not in the right places, where the input and output shafts come together there was a shim, there shouldn't be a shim in that spot at all, there are two springs in the ratchet assembly, one is heavier then the other, they were in the wrong positions, swapped them around, but the shims in their correct positions and reassembled, the end play on the output shaft is now perfect, the bolts in the transmission door are all drilled for safety wire but there was none, if one of them had come loose new cases would be needed, got lucky even though they had used locktite. the kicker arm is for a later model and doesn't fit right, it'll hit the rear exhaust pipe if used, ordered the right one off e-bay lol, cleaned up all the steels and friction plates from the clutch and checked on plate glass, all looked good, reinstalled on freshly greased rollers and basket, installed new clutch cable, primary gasket, and fastened with new allen head bolts, adjusted clutch, releases nicely, added tranny oil, put on new license plate and went for a very short ride, too friggin cold!!! gotta look into the brake light not working anyway. bendix carb should be here next week along with the correct kicker arm, usual cough and dead spot for a kehin carb, found a gallery plug from a mikuni solex auto carburetor that fit, still have lots of bugs to work out, these things have a rear chain oiler, I plug them and oil the chain manually, eliminates some of the oil spot these things leave behind lol.

[randy]

Cool; bad bulb in tail light, couldn't resist, went for about a three mile ride, got an ice cream headache lol, going to go down to Lowes and get some pipe to make a jiffy stand for the bike, can't believe the price of torco oil, in the 80s it was expensive at $2.50 a quart, now it's $9, warmed it up good and pulled the drain, also pulled the sump drain to check the magnet, looks good, need to adjust the lifters, got a little rattely when it warmed up good, also thinking about new pipes, those open drag pipes sure do bark, going to pull the battery so I can pull the oil bag, this year was infamious for developing a leak at the battery tab on the back of the oil tank, while I've got it out I'm going to run all new oil lines, I see a couple with factory crimp clamps so their 34 years old and probably leaking.

[Bob]

LOL Yah I bet you did get an Ice cream headach !  ....without the ice-cream ! ...
its down right cold out there !
 I haven't had the guts to ride anywhere lately ...too darn cold !
....
sounds like your getting  o'l Betsy going purdy good ! LOL
...
 I personally never did like super LOUD pipes... but I Really HATE silant ones too!
 I'ed rather have loud pipes than real quiet ones just for the sake of SAFTY.... I want people to be able to hear me because the jerks NEVER LOOK !
my 1100 has short glass packed mufflers on it and it barely takes the Crack out of each pop of the exhaust note  I can make it noisy if I want too but most of the time its fairly
quiet.... you can hear it idling a long way away.... its actually a bit too loud
but the only thing I can do to quiet it down is an incert in the end of the pipe and that usually degrades proformance a bit.... I still might do it though...
I can make a baffle out of the right size conduit by taking a hack saw to  a 8~12" piece and a hammer and chizzle.... the results are supprising ! it really quiets them down
but you have to leave about half the original diameter open...
the idea is to break up the PULSES ....
here is a quick drawing , just in case ya never seen one ! LOL
their really simple...
...
Bob.

[Bob]

ALSO a good way to really quiet down a loud machine is  a simple metal cap that fits just inside the exhaust pipe... if you drill a bunch of holes in it  and put as many holes as you can with about 1/8" between each hole it will quiet it down substantially!
 copper fitting caps are good for that  or tin cans that fit and a nail to make the holes !  ...LOL been there done that !
makes a world of difference ...

 I love to listen to the engine myself but after a while it gets old 
I had a bike one time that I could not hear over the wind noise on my helmet... I taped up the cracks in the helmet  which just made everything real quiet
 so I took the drill to the exhaust pipes and then I could hear the thing
that was my brand new off the show room floor Honda interceptor 500cc  best handling bike I ever owned... but that "CROTCH ROCKET" hurt to ride it took months of modifying  just to get it to where I didn't hurt for hours after getting to work
... man could that thing corner good though ! 
 I sold it to a guy when things got bad financially and he took over the payments
... that was the first and Last NEW bike I will ever own I think !
I am tempted to get a Yamaha YZF650R (I think it is), the one that has 125hp ...that's one mean machine... but it is a "Crotch rocket" and my bones don't like that position for long !
...that 1100cc out there though is cumfy !  I got it just right now... I made a back rest for the driver that can be removed by the push of a lever and  you'd never know it was there.... I used a "OFFICE SEAT" back rest and made a bracket for it... it works great...I have it all set up for the "LONG HAUL" with no place to go! LOL !
...
 it does make my hands go to sleep after 15min of riding however... I have tendonitus fairly bad in both hands from turning wrenches all my life ... I can't even drive to town in the car without my fingers going numb... and that sucks on a bike !  gloves just agravate the problem and makes it worse. the handle bars are bolted solidly to the upper Yoke and I was thinking about making rubber incerts to stop the viberation  ( had a few bikes that had that arangement from the factory and it works fairly well) but I really don't like wiggly handlebars ! LOL
... because of my numbness in my hands I made a Throttle assist lever that I lay the palm of my hand on and  added a throttle lock screw that I seldom use but it is there if I want to give my throttle hand a break.
the clutch hand is usually the easiest to keep ALIVE because I can take it off the bars and wiggle my fingers or bend my fingers backwards on my thy to get the blood flowing again... yah its painful to do, but  a guys gott'a do what a guy's gott'a do ! LOL
 the XR650L does not give me much of that believe it or not, I dunno why ...it vibrates fairly bad about like the 1100cc, but its so light I don't have to hold on so tight I guess... I can ride it for an hour or so before the fingers go completely numb then its time for a break anyway !
 I found that if I STRETCH the tendons in my hands the Numbness lessons allot
 for a while there it had almost gone away , but its back with a vengeance again
 time for more backward bending of the hands I guess !  UGH !

Bob....

[Bob]

I pulled off the muffler on the XR yesterday and tore into it to try and quiet that east down a bit...
as I expected... the fiberglass matting was all balled up by the exit and no where else
completely filled with oil and carbin so I cut it off... I then took an awl and bent many of the holes in the long screen-pipe to scoop in the exhaust gasses... like a cheese grater
...this alone should help quiet it down a long way.
 I didn't have any fiberglass matting on hand (I thought I did) so I grabbed 2 bags of steel wool and un rolled each bundle and wrapped them around the preferated pipe as best I could , starting with the course steel wool first and the finer stuff at the last outside wrap.... I slid the tube covered with steel wool back inside the pipe and then was going to pop rivet it back together like it was.... but I can't find my good pop rivet gun OR the pop rivets ! so I used large sheet metal screws... and I already lost one!
it did quiet it down by about 10db but not all that much ...I was hoping for more actually
... maybe the steel wool isn't as good as fiberglass ! LOL
...
 All in all it IS allot quieter.... I don't feel like I'm disturbing my neighbors now when I start it ...so that is a good thing!
...
I'll probably add some baffles to it later when I find my rivet gun !  and see if I can't make it a bit quieter...  it did not harm the power in any way ! ...not that I could tell
anyway... it has a very big exhaust pipe on it (in diameter) probably 2.25" and I am sure I can baffle that down to 1" without choking it down too much... HAHAHAHAHA
...
I'll never forget when the 175cc Honda Moto-scrambler came out back in around 1975 or so...they had 3/8" exhaust outlets on them... but man were they quiet!  if you replaced the stock pipes with after market pipes you could gain 5~10 hp !  LOL other wise they were a very docile machine.
...
so it depends on what you want ... if you want HP then its going to be loud! if you want quiet its going to cost ya some HP .... unless your very very careful.
...
Bob...

[randy]

I'm going to go for the best of both worlds, the bike has wide open drag pipes with turnouts, I'm going to cut the turnouts off and either do shotgun style or balogna cut, then I'm going to design my own adjustable butterfly plate, sure I'll loose some power but I'll feel better going through town after work at midnight, the way it is now feels like it's going to make my ears bleed. lol. Been just messing with it here and there, got the rear wheel off now, new wheel bearings are in the works, nice to be able to get bearings and seals at my local auto parts stores.

[Bob]

haha never thought of that but yah I bet you can get the bearings there ! Duh!

I bet U can't get HONDA bearings at Pepboys though!.... Metric Monsters anyway!
lol
Bob....

[randy]

Been steadly going through everything on the bike, rebuilt front forks, all new oil lines, new front brake pads, got some oem tapered muffler exhaust pipes coming, pulled the cam chest apart to check end play on cams, picked the peices of the old shims out of the bottom of the case ACK!!! outer case bushings are toast, rebuilt the oil pump, bushings should show next week, But it does have PB cams as I was told, brushes in generator were shot, oil slinger and separator on gear end were loose and noisy "thought I heard something strange", cam timing was off a tooth or two on the front exhaust valve "thought it was a little lacking on power" idled funny too.

[Bob]

LOL Wow that things going to run like a striped ape when your done !
...
 I ordered 2 front brake rotors for the Toyota Cilica today...I had one off and tried to surface it on my lathe... its so hard that it barely cut and when it did it gouged groves
in it ... I had to take my electric grinder to smooth it out after I was done screwing it UP !.... and got it nice and even .... I thought !
put it all back together and the thing goes thump thump thump when applying the brakes now
... so its not as flat as I thought it was !
... I might be able to rectify that problem but I think its better if I just replaced both rotors sense I just replaced the pads !
... and sense its Mom's Car I want it working good ! LOL
...
its been raining for the last week here, I went out and fired up the bikes the other day and got a new battery for the 4 wheel Carbide Cart and finally got it running too... it was a bear! ... I got a big wagon full of wood and brought it to the house just before the rain hit and its been raining every sense ! LOL
...
My XR650L hasn't failed me yet on starting... but its really cranking over slow !
 I try to start it every few days just to make sure its staying charged
...
 I've seen enough rain to last me the rest of the summer now... come on SUMMER!
hehehehhe
...
Stay Dry up there Randy !
LOL
...
Bob....
 

[randy]

been getting a wintertime summer here for the last week, been riding the xlh every day, cold riding but that never stopped me before, even got the wife out for a ride yesterday, rode it to work all last week, going through town after midnight, the new mufflers quieted the thing right down, seen lots of police but none have come after me so it must be quiet enough lol, doesn't leak a drop of oil so I did something right, wearing my old military arctic cold weather gear that I kept when I got out, cuts the cold well except for my legs, I get colder when fishing so no problem. keep after that vaporization thing, I had a thought, for more vapor if the bubbles went through some mesh it would saturate the bubbles better, like several layers of offset fly screen material, not sure but it might mork without too much heat that way.

[Bob]

LOL I wish I could get the wife on my bike....  she's just not very enthusiastic about it so I don't press it... lol  maybe if I bought her a Honda Spree scooter ! LOL !
...
Bob...

[randy]

Wow!!  a youngster I work with goes to the local college, they have a dyno in there, he got me to bring my bike in there cause it eats his yamaha for lunch, I have a 96 hp sportster hahahahaha

[Bob]

GEEZ ! thats more than my stock 1100cc honda by about 11hp ! HAHAHHA
and my bike is at least DOUBLE the weight of yours ! ... you got a Hot Rod Randy !  HAHAHAHA
...
 One of my friends brought over his bike for me to work on when I was in the business of doing such stuff.... he wanted me to hop it up !  it was a MX 360 Yamaha that really was a strong running machine
I rode it and asked him are you SURE you want me to make it faster   he laughed and said Yah man I want it to be able to beat anything that challenges me... so I ported and polished the ports, opened up the restriction between the bottom of the cylinder and the crank-case and finally took 2 more days to polish it to a mirror finish inside...  the end results were amazing !  bliping the throttle at any rpm got the front wheel up !  it was the Monster! as we called it after that ! LOL
sure was a fun ride !
I have no idea what the HP was on that thing but it was way up there.... it had a tendency to load up below 3500~4000rpm though (porting and polishing does that some times)
but man did it go good!
...
 he took it home and the next day brought it back in the evening and said Heres new chain and sprockets for it.... it blew the other chain last night and I never could find it ! LOL
...AHAHAHAHAHA
...
Bob...

[randy]

Been like an early summer here in washington, been riding the ironhead a lot, even making excuses just to ride it, gets over 50 mpg, it seems a lot of people have the same idea, motorcycles everywhere. bought a pile of parts I want to install but I'd have to tear it down and the weather's nice so it'll wait till next week, supposed to start raining again then. Been working a lot of overtime lately, still have a big pile of washers sitting there staring at me lol, I'm thinking my motorbike afixiation may fade a bit so I can get buisy on that build.

[Bob]

Ahhh don't let the Fixation fade on that Bike Randy ...its the most fun you can have with your clothes on !
I have decided to sell my 1100cc as I do Not ride it any more instead I hop on the XR650L... its just easier lighter and so much more manoverable I find I just like riding it more ! its less WORK ! LOL
so soon as I get liscnses on it I am going to take it down to the bike shop and put it on commission I think I'll try to get 2k out of it but we'll see.
...that buys allot of Beer don't ya know! HAHAHHAHA
....
Bob.....