100% Hydroxy powered Pickup!

[Bob]

Manta:
  Yah electricaly Parallel...+-+-+-+-+.... all the way through the stack...
its just that you'd have a bigger percentage of the plates doing their job , making HHO than if you had only 2 plates with the same area...
.... you lost me on the 99 instead of 98 gaps....I was thinking starting and stopping on a positive plate  (if that's even possible on 100 plates LOL) ...anyway the 2 end plates work only on one side...towards the GAP next to the negative plate...  that leaves 2 sides of the plates "UN COVERED"
and therefore 2 gaps that don't exist... so 98 gaps instead of 100 gaps,with 100 plates.
...I'm just thinking out loud here , trying to explain how I think the thing works...
to me that's the reason Multi-plate cells work better than just 2 plate cells...its More of the percentage of the plates are actually used for making HHO
...

CRB:  well... that'll do it ! HAHAHA   nice to have that adjustable ! that's really neet!
....
Early On I did some experiments on plate SHAPE in an attempt to see if it was the EDGES of the plates that made the HHO as some people claimed it was.
I tried this on a tube cell.... it made about 1/2LPM at 20amps.... not a real great cell as I had hoped so it was a good canadate to destroy !...
 after getting the readings on the cell of 1/2LPM at 20 amps I took the tube cell appart and drilled a gillion holes in it on every tube.... I was sick of drilling holes by the time I was done let me assure you ! LOL
 after the holes were drilled I cleaned up the tubes again and then re assembled the cell and re tested it.... the output was almost identical to the first test , if anything it was a bit less in output... so that told me it was not the edges that HHO is produced on its the surface of the metal
... although the added holes would have aided in cooling the tube cell I suppose , the reduction of METAL that I drilled out had to be the results of the Tad less of output!
(and believe me I had a Pile of metal shavings when I was done around my drill press ! HAHAHHA!)
...
I saw a cell made with Star-shaped plates.... the fella thought that points aided hho production
but his output was only 3/4LPM at 20 amps so it was not the answer either.
...although Round plates (washers) do work well, I have seen square plate cells work just as good as the Randy cell.... ( although I have not made one myself <grin> )
So I am fairly certain plate shape means Nothing as long as all the plates are the same (so they cover one another good )
 some guys have made cells out of stainless steel Screen and had good luck, a few tube cells made of screen worked very well indeed.... they had no neutral plates in the design but were parallel electrically in design .
...

Bob.....

[Manta]

...anyway the 2 end plates work only on one side...towards the GAP next to the negative plate...

Doesn't the negative end plate face across a gap towards the positive side of the next plate ?
The outer (unused) faces of each end plate are at rhe same polarity as the inner faces

You can't have a positive at both ends.

Dave
(Manta)

[Manta]

Additional.

With 100 plates you would have 99 gaps,  but you would have 98 working surfaces due to the none working outers at each end.  Is that what you meant ?

Dave
(Manta)

[crb]

....God how I love being officially RETIRED!LOL
Amen

[Bob]

yah that's what I meant Manta... er... I think anyway  HEHEHEHHE!
and you can have pos. or neg. on both ends, just add another plate if it turns up the wrong polarity ! LOL
.... even or odd positive or negative... just depends on which one you start with ! that is why the Randy cell ended up with 11 plates and not 10... just to cover that last neg plate.... after all its there ya just as well use it ! HAHAHAHAHHA! I believe the Randy cell starts and ends on a positive plate
... not positive as its been a long time sense I looked at it, and you can swap the wiring to have it just the opposite if you want... so the point is actually mute  <grin>
...
but the whole idea is to get as much use of the plate area as possable ... that rules out super large plates like 12"x12" unless its just easier to go that way for ya ! because the smaller the plate size the more efficient the use of the metal.... (more coverage is taking place)
....this is where the Neutral plate design excells, the neutral plates act as both positive and negitive faces in the same plate.... how it can do that is because they are excited by the electromagnetic fields... and because of that excitement the electrons flow to their respective sides in the same sheet of metal.... a good trick if you ask me ! LOL ...half positive half negative.
I seriously doubt you could get any real power going through a neutral plate but I suppose that's not true either, as Bob Boyce accomplished high output on a neutral plate cell... so it can be done!
 ...
Bob.....

[Weapon_R]

Bob I agree with the plate size and gaps theory. Personally I believe 5x5 or less for plate area.

[Bob]

Agreed!
... Problem is it all depends on how much Output you are going after...
take Bob Boyce's 101 plate series cell... it has 6"x8" plates if I remember correctly and has 101 of them, fed with 220vdc and all the plates but the 2 ends are neutral....( evidently raising the voltage extends the distance the end plates can be separated, because their almost 3 ft apart!)
...so this is a case where larger than normal plates do indeed work well because the cell puts out something like 70LPM.... He goes on to say that his control circuit  accounts for a large portion of that output.... which may or may not be the facts.
....in comparison Bob Boyce's cell is a small Plate cell,"for its size." its just BIG all the way around. LOL
...
For normal Hydroxy Cell use however, smaller plates seam to be the way to go
I can imagine a 12"x12" plate cell like that of Bob Boyce's the length of a pick-up bed fed with what ever High voltage it takes to make it work and producing enough to power the truck on 100% hydroxy gas
with no trouble at all.... even a large V8 truck use for pulling trailers !
 It would have to devote allot of the space under the hood for large alternators, and the electronics of such a setup would break the bank to be sure ...but one day it may well be a standard option when the gasoline is no longer available... not till then however.
...
Bob....

[Weapon_R]

Yes Bob higher voltage does change things I believe.
For some unknown reason I don't pay much attention to Bob Boyce.
Not sure what to think of him.

[Manta]

101 plates would give you 220/101 = 2.178 Volts across each gap.  Which is pretty close to the ideal.

If you bring that down to the smaller size we use then you would have 13.5 Volt/2.178 = 6.12 gaps.
As you can't have a fractional gap then I suppose you would go for 6 gaps = 7 plates (2 power and 5 neutrals) and accept 13.5/6 = 2.25 Volt per gap.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

Very good Manta !  except that in reality, hardly ANYONE runs 7 plates because the extremely low output
they remove a plate or 2 (as most of them do) and then finally have a usable output from their cell
 WHY it worked for Bob Boyce I have no idea... he says its because of his electronics the big toroid coil and other goodies he has to try and reach the Waters resonant frequency ... but in actuality I doubt that part. anyone that mounts a huge Toroid coil on their cell isn't playing with a full deck in my book ! LOL... I cannot see where a strong magnetic field will "Enhance" production if it has no way to contact the water.... just the field being there isn't going to do a thing.... I think...
...
Strangely enough 7 plates SHOULD be the perfect number.... I've done the math too and it SHOULD work
but I have never herd of a 7 plate cell that was worth a shit ! to be quite honest !
I tried 7 plates on my first Randy cell and it was only a moderate output...... I thought 7 plates would be the magic number.... even in parallel but it sure wasn't !
... A while back on another forum I read where a guy made a 6"x6" neutral plate DRY CELL he stacked the plates to 7 plates like you'd expect him to do , tried it and the out put was terrible!
he fought it for weeks and finally took the other fell'as advice and removed a plate... the output came way up... it came up so much that he decided to remove another plate to see if it helped... and it did.... he then took off another, and production took a nose dive , so he put that plate back on and used it that way.... I think he wound up with something like 4LPM at 50~55Amps... but he was after more than that but settled on that much, put it on his ford F-100 and gained 8mpg right off the bat with his 390 V8....  he got all enthusiastic about it then and was in the process of making another cell just like it to get 8LPM total.... and I haven't been back to that site sense LOL
...
Bob....

[Bob]

been a while sense I posted on this thread... but not because I lost interest !
I just didn't have anything new....
well Now I do.
... I've been reading D16.PDF  and although there seams to be a few things that just don't make sense , like making all the HHO required on just plane water... a really good trick! and just making all the required HHO in the first place... and he says he does it at about 10 to 15 amps or so... which to me is impossible....
because As Manta figured if he made 24LPM to run his engine any conventional way of making HHO would require hundreds of amps ! not a mear 10~15amps....
 but be that as it may, he claims to have done it and it works well for him  at speeds up to 85mph on the HHO and the Hydroxy cell or "Water splitter" as he calls it kept up with the volume... which tells me he got it right.
... I want to do what this man did because I'ed not have to buy gasoline at all for my pickup ! what a god send that would be!  although I haven't driven it sense November if I didn't have to buy gasoline for it I'ed park the other car and drive the truck ! LOL
....

Now more than ever I believe it is possible to run my truck on 100% HHO...
and I found that it may be easier than I first thought by simply supplying the injectors with the HHO instead of gasoline... this would cure a bunch of problems... and make it straight forward
 if I can just supply the injectors with HHO and that takes care of the fuel delivery, then the only other problem is making the large volume of Hydroxy gas... I figure I need 15LPM to 25LPM ...20LPM being the ball park figure I think...
 but that is a Huge amount of HHO to produce ! ...
I could copy his cell and see if it gives me that much but I already know it wouldn't not without feeding it really HIGH AMPERAGE...... perhaps his PWM does make 50% more HHO than it normially would...anything is possible ! LOL
...
even if I had to get a 300amp altenator to supply the needed power it would be well worth it...
but I am not sure by any means that that would give me the needed 20LPM.... if I was sure I'd buy one tomorrow!  to heck with eating for a month ! LOL
....
  I am leaning toward trying his cell design out... but I expect I'd only get something like 4LPM at 20amps from it... if that.... I'd need the 120+ amps to show if it really will produce enough Gas to run my truck or not.
... so there I set.... not knowing what to do....again!
it seams in this business that nothing is certain, everything is an unknown and the only way to know for sure is to just DO IT!
...
LOL

Bob.....