KF-Puffin1
Jr. Member
Posts: 58
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« on: October 28, 2008, 10:22:23 pm » |
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Randy i know you use the koolaid for your cells...or i think that i read that somewhere.
have you ever noticed a difference in the bubbles going from say koh/baking soda/koolaid
might just be me but it seems like i get much finer bubbles with the koolaid as i do from the baking soda..
i dont have any koh yet to test that but whatever.....
just a side note for anyone....dont try the 100% lye from lowes wife bought me some and i tried it......thankfully i was using protection...was like a dead short .....must not be 100%
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There are those that lead , And those who follow. My wife says i must follow , and hold her purse....."sigh"
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Bob
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 11:05:00 pm » |
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I'm running Koolaid now and when its on and running just about ALL i get is tiny bubbles and small bubbles the size of a pincel eraser... not too impressive to look at realy but when I take the top off the bubbler the bubbles are the size of quarters and constant!.
...
Bob....
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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randy
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 07:56:20 am » |
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yeah it makes tiny bubbles but lots of em, I tested KOH in a cell, it produced the same amount of gas at the same amp draw but after time the cell became frosted looking and production dropped off, the koolaid just keeps on going and keeps the cell clean.
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KF-Puffin1
Jr. Member
Posts: 58
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 11:02:37 am » |
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what kind of water are ya'll useing? city water/well water/distilled water/mineral water/spring water....ect ect.ect..........
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There are those that lead , And those who follow. My wife says i must follow , and hold her purse....."sigh"
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randy
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 06:35:56 pm » |
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distilled de mineralized, I get mine at Safeway
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Bob
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 06:41:27 pm » |
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Same here.... i got mine at Squall-Mart.... er Wall mart...
i did use creek water but was having a goo problem.... switched to Fistilled,Demeneralized water
and no problems now with goo
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Bob....
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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ROADKING
Jr. Member
Posts: 72
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2008, 07:26:27 am » |
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I built a 5 cell unit, that is 5 (2inx5in) 316ss cells, 1/16in. spacing, wired in series, in the same bath, I washed them in muratic acid, then put in 1 1/2 gallons of distilled water, I have put in 25 packs of kool laid so far and still not drawing more than 15 amps after running for over an hour. Other than rewire in parallel what would you suggest, sea salt maybe or what? I will rewire but that is a big job for I made all of my connections with 1/4 in round ss rod with nuts welded to them, and I will have to redo all of this. Thanks for any in put.
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« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 08:59:33 am by ROADKING »
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KF-Puffin1
Jr. Member
Posts: 58
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2008, 10:50:20 am » |
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well...........did you have the thing runnning before the muraitic bath? were you able to get the ampreage up above 15 before the bath.
if so i would make sure you have washed off all the acid from the cells.or posible soak em in the kool aid mixture for a day or 2.then try again.
the acid bath should not have hurt anything if your connections are all welded and have no wires in the solution.
but i bet the main problem though is a dead or weak battery.you should possibley check you voltage on the battery while the cell is running at your 15 amps.
good bet is its weak under load.
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There are those that lead , And those who follow. My wife says i must follow , and hold her purse....."sigh"
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ROADKING
Jr. Member
Posts: 72
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2008, 12:19:34 pm » |
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I am running it in the auto and it starts great but I have not checked the battery. I will. The cell has been washed with acid and rinsed. I will check it out some more.
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jagara
Newbie
Posts: 3
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2008, 07:01:57 pm » |
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G'day guys, i'm slowly getting my stuff together to make two or three "Randy Cells", but am having trouble finding what you call shimstock, is this just very thin stainless steel sheet? plus i got your description of your container Bob, ie. pvc pipe two ends ect. Now may i ask,what is Koolaid you keep refering to, or is it just any old lemonade or something special and what is this KOH i keep reading about?
Sounds like you guys are way ahead of me in this Hydrogen making game, but it certainly sounds promising, keep up the good work.See you later.
Jagara
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hydrotinkerer
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2008, 07:16:12 pm » |
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jagara,
Shim stock is like you said very thin ss.
Koolaid is a drink here in the states. It is mildly acidic, when enough of it is mixed it can be used as a catalyst.
Koh-potassium hydroxide or caustic potash.
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KF-Puffin1
Jr. Member
Posts: 58
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 07:58:36 pm » |
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There are those that lead , And those who follow. My wife says i must follow , and hold her purse....."sigh"
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Bob
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2008, 09:49:25 pm » |
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Good work Guys !
Roadking:
Unfortionately I ran into the same problem when running my 3 randy cells in series with Lemonaid Koolaid... I added close to 30 packs before it was all over and never did get above 15amps draw...
I reasoned it was the Koolaid not being strong enough as you did... I flushed it out again and
went back to KOH and it took about 8 teaspoons in the 1 gal container to finally reach 20 amps
then when it warmed up it was throwing the curcuit breaker ( 30amp) so I drained all the KOH out and added distilled water only ( cold) and it came up to 14 amps ...I left it there and when it warmed up it was at 31 amps draw....
... in some cases like mutable series cells or very wide plate spaceing Lemonaid Koolaid doesn't work too hot...
However I wired my randy cells in parallel now running only 2 of the 3 cells in parallel and I run them fine on Koolaid... infact it barely took a single packet to bring it up to 15 amps, when warm it runs at 29.5 amps.... so its perfect for me....
...
sounds like you have two options...KOH or a total re-build, I'ed go with the KOH !
...
some times you can find Potasium Hydroxide in Drain cleaners in the hardware stores.. but most drain cleaners have Sodium Hydroxide in them Not Potasium Hydroxide...so take your magnifieing glass with you and read the SMALL PRINT of what it contains ! you don't want Sodium Hydroxide thats Salt and it will make a bunch of Green GOO in the cell and coat everything and make a mess !
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Jagara: as Hydrotinkier said its just thin Stainless steel sheeting... I believe its thickness is 0.010".... you can bend it fairly easy with the fingers... but its still stiff. you want stainless steel because tin will rust extreamily fast... although a tin can is about the right thickness!
...remember you want to thred the shimstock down on the 1/4" bolts so the hole drilled has to be smaller than the threds on the bolt.... I believe its 7/32" but when in doubt measure the thickness of the bolt between the threds for the size of the hole... and then you might even go a bit smaller than that ... my shim stock is fitting on extreamily tight its hard to get started on the threds
but I am sure it will maintain contact with the bolt that way... too loose and it might not!
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Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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wess
Newbie
Posts: 33
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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2008, 09:18:30 pm » |
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Hi Randy..about the Kool-Aid..The ingredients list salt in kool-aid. Citric acid is 1st & salt is 4th. We know salt is bad (chlorine gas) so have you tried plain citric acid? It is an acid. Could it be its the salt in the kool-aid thats giving the results? Have you tried Real Lemon or Lemon Juice or Citric Acid? Just wanted you to know about the salt in Kool-Aid..
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randy
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2008, 11:50:28 pm » |
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10 mg of sodium, that's not very much, cant even equate to a %, you leave more then that in a fingerprint.
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wess
Newbie
Posts: 33
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« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 04:10:41 pm » |
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Randy, I didnt mean anything by that. If kool-aid works then use it. I just have a inquisitive mind & I always try to figure out "why" something works..lol. Whats the ingredient in kool-aid that makes it work, or what combination of ingredients. I asked if you have tried plain citric acid, or real lemon etc., have you?
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randy
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 08:43:42 pm » |
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No actually I haven't, I've been looking for the article done by the US government on electrolysing HHO, their findings with whatever type of electrolysers they were using worked best with Koolaid, they tried all kinds of stuff including KOH, pure citric acid but the article stated k-aid worked best, if I happen to find it again I'll post a link.
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2008, 01:12:20 pm » |
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Well, I've run into a little problem with the koolaid(I think Bob's run into the same thing). I've been running some generators I made that are coils. I built three of them connected in series and ran them for probably a half hour with koh to see how they worked. The generator was pulling 25-30 amps when I got done adding koh, probably 3 or 4 tablespoons in a gallon of water which is more than I have to add when I just run one. I dumped the koh out and rinsed the gen. After that I started adding koolaid. I put in 30 packs and was pulling around 10 amps. Since then I've added another 55 packs for a total of 85 packs of koolaid and can't get to 15 amps I would like to be pulling 25-30 (the amp draw really didn't change after 40 packs and I really don't understand that). I've got 2 pints of alcohol and the rest of the gallon of solution is distilled water. I don't want to change to parallel. Any ideas? I thought about seeing if I can get some citric acid at the drug store and add some of it.
Another thing I noticed is when you look into the top of the gen tube the mixture is really boiling(there is no heat but it looks like boiling water) but the only bubbles are right on the edge of the tube and are very small. It's like the koolaid won't let bubbles form. This makes me wonder if it also lets the hydrogen release from the stainless quicker. Maybe that's one reason the military thought it worked best.
I am getting good bubbles when I stick the hose in water(didn't have time to measure it) which tells me I'm getting good production. At least good production of something.
You know when you mess with this hydrogen thing you run into more wrinkles than if you bumped into a 100 year old at a nudist colony!
Charley
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Bob
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2008, 02:26:26 pm » |
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All I can say is eather go to parallel hookup ( probly better off that way) or
switch back to KOH...
...As you know I had the same problem and I reverted back to the KOH for a time then desided to go to parallel.... and back to Koolaid because it stays cleaner and don't turn coffee brown....
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HAHAHA you got that right about all the wrinkels !
its like the Cilica out there, I ordered the wheel berrings , thought no problem I'll swap them out in an afternoon.... well its been 3 days now and I have the entire spindle off the car and on the work bench trying to get the berring race out ! the ball berrings fell out in my hand ...so I realy think I found the problem with the growling noise <GRIN>
but one of the 26 balls was gone...i asume ground up into dust !
....so now I am trying to get the berring race out so I can install the new berrings when they arive later this week.... I'll problyhave to heat the outside and cool the race with a wet rag to get it out... that never fails.... or in extream measures arc weld a bead all the way around the race and it will fall out !
.... but right now I'm trying to beat it out.... you know...do the obvious first! HAHAHAHA
.... dunno why it is that Nothing is ever simple ... it alwayse has to be much harder than it should be !
.... must be Character building eh ? HAHAHAHAHA
....
Bob........
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2008, 03:05:12 pm » |
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You're not alone Bob. My pickup wouldn't start last night. Lights work and we tried boosting it but just clicked. Probably the starter. It's hard to kill a toyota they just get wounded once in a while. We got about a foot of snow last night to add insult to injury. haha
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Bob
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2008, 03:14:36 pm » |
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when mine did that I found the battery was so dead that it was killing the other jumper battery.. took the battery out and stuck the other one in and charged it and it fired right up
... yah the wife was late for work but she don't need to drive in the first snow with all the idiots sliding all over the place ! HAHAHAHAHHAHA
...I went in the next day and bought a good battery and havn't had any truble sense
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strange how it waits till the first snow fall and super cold to go bad !
I've had 2 batteries do that to me they were fine up to that point!
...
Bob..........
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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KF-Puffin1
Jr. Member
Posts: 58
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2008, 06:08:17 pm » |
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You know when you mess with this hydrogen thing you run into more wrinkles than if you bumped into a 100 year old at a nudist colony!
Charley thats just good comedy there |
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There are those that lead , And those who follow. My wife says i must follow , and hold her purse....."sigh"
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2008, 08:26:20 pm » |
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I put a new amp gauge on which is reading 7.5 amps and I am up to 110 packs of koolaid. The checkout gal at the grocery store is also starting to look at me funny. I tried to explain to her what I was using it for. Didn't help. I must have reached the saturation point for koolaid mix because after 30 packs the amps didn't raise much. Smells good though; wish I would have used everclear instead of rubbing alcohol!  I'm thinking about adding a little muriatic acid to the mix and see what happens. I can't find any citric acid in town. Charley |
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candyman55
Full Member
Posts: 117
Custom Cabinet Maker
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2008, 08:31:12 pm » |
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charley,
check the drug store, they usually have it. But if you got that much koolaid in there there probably ain't much hope for more citric
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2008, 08:38:39 pm » |
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Thanks Candyman. I called them yesterday and they didn't. They could order me a pound for 22 dollars. I didn't think I needed it that bad.
You're probably right on the Koolaid. I hate to pitch it though. I've got a little bit of money wrapped up in it.
Charley
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randy
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 09:56:41 pm » |
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man sorry to hear that, guess ya could add sugar and enjoy, I think plate spacing has a lot to do with if you can use k-aid or not.
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hydrotinkerer
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 10:12:22 pm » |
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That will take alot of sugar to offset that many packets. |
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wess
Newbie
Posts: 33
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2008, 04:53:16 am » |
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Charley, citric acid is what they use in food storage. It is used by people who can & dry foods to preserve the color etc. Try a grocery store where they sell canning supplies..
Oh, & muratic (hydrochloric) acid should never be used in a generator (unless to clean it only). It is very has very toxic & dangerous fumes that will eat most anything including skin, clothes etc..JUST THE FUMES..OK..read the label...you get the point.
The best advise for everyone is to look chemicals up in wikpedia..then you'll know.
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hg2
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2008, 05:07:30 am » |
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I tried the koolaid(20 packs to 1/2 gal distilled) in my tero,the voltage was correct,but production and amps were almost nonexistent.I think the plates innadip designs like the smacks benefit from the koolaid and the dry cells guys are going to have to stick to the koh and Naoh if we want any mentionable production.At least this was my determination after trying the koolaid.
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ROADKING
Jr. Member
Posts: 72
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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2008, 02:10:31 pm » |
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I had the same problem, no amps with kool aid after 7. I ordered pure citric acid @ $24.00 a lb. This did nothing, another $24.00 down the drain, so I took Bobs advice and put my plates closer together @1/16" apart, I am now at 32 amps cold with 35 packs of kool aid and after 2 hours it was up to 48 amps and producing good. I also have 5 of them wired parallel in the same bath. Happy at the time. I am now working on turning up amps with altered alternator along with another set of cells in separate bath. Goal 12 lpm at 100 amps. we will see and let you know.
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hg2
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2008, 04:30:01 pm » |
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I had the same problem, no amps with kool aid after 7. I ordered pure citric acid @ $24.00 a lb. This did nothing, another $24.00 down the drain, so I took Bobs advice and put my plates closer together @1/16" apart, I am now at 32 amps cold with 35 packs of kool aid and after 2 hours it was up to 48 amps and producing good. I also have 5 of them wired parallel in the same bath. Happy at the time. I am now working on turning up amps with altered alternator along with another set of cells in separate bath. Goal 12 lpm at 100 amps. we will see and let you know.
So your cells are open bath type correct? |
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Bob
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2008, 09:42:07 pm » |
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Fantastic RoadKing !
glad its working for ya !
keep after it you'll get it !
....
Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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ROADKING
Jr. Member
Posts: 72
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2008, 09:28:41 am » |
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YES ALL IN SAME CONTAINER
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IronBear
Newbie
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2008, 10:04:18 am » |
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Call me suspicious.... But I think Bob may have stock in a Kool-Aid...  Coincidence? Hmmmmmmm.... |
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Currently working on the cell efficiency equation...  |
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randy
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2008, 05:57:52 pm » |
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I love that k-aid, cheap easy to find, doesn't seem to deteriorate, keeps cell perfectly clean.
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Bob
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2008, 08:43:39 pm » |
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HAHAHA Nope Ironbear ! No stock in Koolaid... no Kick backs of any Kind... but I have been thinking of Makeing a deal with Koolaid and re packageing the stuff and sell it for $5.00 an ounce! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA ( JK)
...
I just recomend it because its what works best so far... I have nothing to gain by it !
HAHAHAHAH
Randy on the other hand Drinks His.... but I'm not that brave !
...HAHAHAHAHHA
( no Justin ! thats a Joke Don't drink the Koolaid after its been spiked with the alkahol!..
thats the Wrong Kind of Booze .. Use Everclear or Bacardi if your planning on drinking it!)
...
HEHEHEHEHEHE
Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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