candyman55
Full Member
Posts: 117
Custom Cabinet Maker
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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2008, 07:50:21 am » |
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Would not Methanol be a better antifreeze than Alcohol for our generators. I am not sure of the percentage it would take to keep the water from freezing but Methanol electrolizes at a lower voltage than water. And makes more hydrogen it the process. I haven't tried this yet but I have a idea that by varying the percentage of water to methanol in the mix one may be able to control the percentage of Oxygen to Hydrogen produce. (Just a thought)
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hydrotinkerer
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2008, 07:47:15 pm » |
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This is going to open a can of worms.
Bases and acids are at opposite ends of the scale. I think an acid is a better conductor that is why it is used in auto batteries. I have never put an acid in a gen. but I have to ask why? Would not a tiny bit of acid vs a tiny bit of base? They are equally toxic in their own way and would destroy an engine given all things equal. Bob said muriatic acid produced like crazy. I have been using Naoh "base" because I was told to use it. I know of people using sodium citrate(acid), people here are using koolaid it is considered a acid because of ingredients. Nasa uses cobalt phosphate(contains Phosphoric acid, cobalt(2+) salt (2:3)). That is on the acidic side what do they know we don't.
Bases can be thought of as the chemical opposite of acids. A reaction between an acid and base is called neutralization. Bases and acids are seen as opposites because the effect of an acid is to increase the hydronium ion (H3O+) concentration in water, whereas bases reduce this concentration. I like to think of these differences in acid(eats metal) and base(corrodes metal).
Methanol is alcohol(methyl alcohol) I think it is a better choice over isopropyl alcohol.
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Bob
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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2008, 08:26:10 pm » |
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I said Muratic Acid produces like crazy ? I don't remember saying that !...
I might have turned on the cell with the acid in there just to see what it did though ! HAHAHAHA
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...its a bitch when your memory gets do dim that you have to do everything twice before ya remember it! .... time to take more vitimans I guess ! HAHAHHAAH
Bob...
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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candyman55
Full Member
Posts: 117
Custom Cabinet Maker
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2008, 08:26:59 pm » |
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I have tried citric acid it seems to loose something after a while. I only tried it once and can't remember in which generator design. The initial production was quite good as i remember. I have quite a bit left and may give it another go.
Citric Acid seems to be mild compared to most of the others. I think that if you were going to use them in our electrolizer you may want to be very careful. Strong Muriatic acid will eat your nylon connectors rather quickly. Not sure what material the packaging containers are made of but you may want to use it for washers and spacers.
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geezer
Newbie
Posts: 37
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« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2008, 10:58:59 pm » |
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Question Would a hydrometer or antifreze tester be of any value testing koolaid & alcohol or KOH?
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Life is simpler when you plow around the stump!
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 12:35:23 am » |
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I might have fixed our problem. I mixed KOH and distilled water at 25% solution by weight(2.5 ounces koh 7.5 ounces distilled water) and turned the freezer down to 10 below Fahrenheit. It didn't freeze. It has been in the freezer for about 14 hours now.
Hope this helps.
Charley
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Bob
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2008, 01:11:30 am » |
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that will work for guys with PWM Charley but not for guys without one....
that will draw way too many amps on my unit if I tried that...
...I tried KOH and creek water and it froze solid by the next morning, dunno what the freezer is set at but it is very cold !
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Bob..........
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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hg2
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2008, 01:14:58 pm » |
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I might have fixed our problem. I mixed KOH and distilled water at 25% solution by weight(2.5 ounces koh 7.5 ounces distilled water) and turned the freezer down to 10 below Fahrenheit. It didn't freeze. It has been in the freezer for about 14 hours now.
Hope this helps.
Charley
I tried the same thing only with 30% koh and freezer around O deg.F and it froze solid overnite.I put it in a 2 OZ plastic shot glass. |
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 02:02:55 pm » |
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Yeah Bob if you don't have a way to control the amps you will have a runnaway. I'm also having trouble with my pwm getting really hot if I turn it above 20 amps. I about smoked it the other day. I'm going to try a really heavy duty rheastat I got from a friend the other day. I don't know if it will work or not but I don't know why it won't.
As far as the KOH is concerned, I just took it out of the freezer and it's still liquid. The freezer is a 10 below. I'll mix another batch when I get time. Maybe I've got it stronger than I think but I don't think so. I used a digital scale.
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2008, 04:26:03 pm » |
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I mixed another batch 1 oz koh 3 oz water and put it in the freezer. It hasn't froze yet after about 5 hours so I don't know what I'm doing different.
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Bob
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2008, 06:39:22 am » |
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I do... your mixing the concentration so strong that it cannot be used !
at least not by me ! <GRIN>
your mixing the concentration by weight... we go by teaspoons per gallon of water !
ours is so weak as compaired to yours its like water !
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so KOH in the concentration that I CAN use freezes solid... that will split my Hydroxy tank!
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Humm gott'a be some way !
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Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Manta
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2008, 08:03:04 am » |
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Hydrotinkerer,
re.
...o bad you don't have any litmus paper to test the gas coming out of your gen. I would be curious to see if the reading would be acidic. I'll test mine but they all have Naoh in them so their going to be caustic(base)....
You could put some universal indicator in water and bubble gas though it. That will give you the Ph.
Manta
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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hydrotinkerer
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2008, 09:26:53 am » |
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The litmus was reasonable (reasonable to me is free). I forgot all about testing that. I'll add to my list and check that out. It is a little tedious because I have vinegar in the last bubbler and I don't want that giving a false reading.
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hg2
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2008, 09:42:49 am » |
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I saw a post on another form about a guy that lives in Alaska and he stated that he used 99% Isopropyl Alcohol at 20% volume and said it has worked down to 28 deg.F below zero.
Another idea they had was using Isopropyl Alcohol at 20% volume in their bubblers so they wouldn't crack from freezing.
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 05:10:46 am by hg2 »
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Bob
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« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2008, 04:37:50 am » |
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COOL Alaska Has my vote then ! but not acitone ! that will desolve my ABS pipes!
...20% Isorb--- whatever Alkihall <GRIN> is easy to come by... I shall pick up a gallon next time i am in walmart... ( if they got it !)
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thank you for your Help that should cure the Freezing problem for me !
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Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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