A SIMPLE TEST !

[Bob]

LOL I say that every time the mythbusters say that ! LOL
...
have you ever got a LPM reading from that cell yet ?
 or did ya think " well it bubbles.... that's close enough !"  HAHAHAHAHA!
...
there may well be something to this Frequancy pulsing thing... got to thinking that all I had in the water was 2 wires... no plates at all and it put out a good amount of bubbles ! that may be because of the 60 cycles per second pulses more than anything... because there simply is no plate area at all and it puts out HHO.... what will happen when I give it plate area ?
  60 cycles per second is not high frequency by any means in fact its closer to the ELF band than anything (Extremely Low Frequency) where frequencies are calculated in cycles per second instead of hundreds or thousands of cycles per second... this is actually closer to the resonant frequency of many natural things.... at 7hz you'll find that it is the resonant frequency of a Chickens brain cavity ! and there are many more things like grasshoppers Flop over dead and such things.
 as far as I know water's resonant frequency is low in the ELF band but according to others in the Hydroxy field its up in the Mega HZ range... which seams kind of weird to me that's RF frequencies
or Radio Frequencies which is very odd for Natural substances  the Sun 's main frequency is around 4~7hz and comprises of a very WIDE band all the way from KHZ down to 1hz but its strongest around 4~7hz.
every Molecule has its own Resonant frequency... matching a pulse of electricity or even a push or smack with a hammer at that frequency will break apart that molecule fairly easy  Far more easy than without it... so it stands to reason that Pulsed Electricity would make Electrolysis work far better!
...
the problem is what is the Resonant frequency of a water Molecule ? 
... guess I'll try to find it on Wiki !
... catch'a later and don't work too hard !

...
Bob...

[Bob]

I read the web last night till my eyes were burning so I gave up
I could not find anything on the Resonant frequency of a water molecule... Found just about everything else on Wiki about water however... but not the resonant frequency !
....
 I got to thinking about what I observed going on in that Dr.Pepper bottle the other day when I had the wire plugged into 110vac.
 I had the wires seperated about 1/16" BUT that does not mean they didn't pull together when the power was turned on... heck they could be stuck together right now for all I know.
... but I don't think they did and I haven't pulled the wires out to check.
I'm thinking that the electrolyte may well have been enough to cause an electron path through the gap
making a very tiny arc... but I don't think that is what happened
for all intents and purposes it just sat there and sizzled humming the 60 hz hum and producing bubbles
...
 I don't think the wires came in contact with each other or it would have blown the circuit breaker because that is a direct short.
 all I succeded in doing was making a very small Hydroxy generator... using 110vac.
the amperage was probably fairly high but not high enough to trip the breaker so it was below 30 amps.
...
what supprised me was the amount of bubbles coming off the 2 wires... and I can't help but think what would happen if I plugged my cell I made out of wall switch plate covers  into 110vac !
I adjusted the Koolaid to about 21amps before I tested the LPM reading and got about 1/4LPM
... I wonder what will happen if I plug the 110vac onto the terminals of that cell and see what that does !
...
 from what I saw the other day I should get a HUGE amount of HHO from it... how much I have no idea
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I think I'll take the cell and bucket into the shed and give it a try!
....
 I mean after all, I could run my inverter to power the cell if it means I get a bunch of HHO !
HAHAHAHAHAHHA
...
Bob.....

 

[Brad4321]

From the reading I did with the frequency, I don't remember for sure, but I think it was around 40.

Anything we do on 12v, we can do on 110 (or 220!) better. More voltage is more voltage "push", which could in turn mean less amps used. Higher volts is nearly always more efficient. In my previous thoughts of making a home based HHO system for bottling, this was my idea. Run on 220. I have a 60 amp plug in my garage, but you could always use your drier outlet. Build a cell off the same idea as 12v to run. I am just going to guess, but I bet we could at least triple if not quadruple our output per amp using 220.

As far as using an inverter for using this technique on our 12v cars, that is getting a bit sketchy. It is hard to find an inverter that has a lot of capacity, but you must also deal with inverter efficiency, which isn't very high. If we hooked up a cell to 110/220 and seen the increase, it could be judged on whether running an inverter is a good idea or not.

[Bob]

yes good point !
...
I think I'll go try to plug my cell into 110vac and see what it does !
... I bet the output will be almost triple....
I guess we'll see ! LOL
....
Bob.......

[Manta]

Just read the above.

Question,  How do you know that it won;t simply be steam generated by any arc that is blowing off the top.

Here is a variation.

Get your electric welder.
Make up a couple of electrodes and place them through an insulated top; spacing them about 1/8" apart at the bottom.

Use a very thin bit of fuse wire to short the ends together (to get the arc started).

Add water until it is just above the short.

Offer a prayer to which ever God you support;  (either for success or survival,  depends on the result) and switch on the welder.

Should be fun,  but it still won't answer the question of was it exploding gas or steam that did it.



Dave,
(Manta)

[Bob]

humm you might have something there Manta !
 I might give that a try ...
 i like the idea of a "fuseable" link to start the arc... thats a good quick method  and SHOULD WORK
but hard to say if it will or not ! LOL
...
I've seen my arc welder hold a arc over 1" long on its high setting on AC...
on DC its about 3/4 to 1/2" at max
...
so should I use DC instead of AC ?   or would it matter on a Arc Reactor ?
...

it would be very strange if I could generate enough HHO by using my Arc welder !  then all I'd need is an inverter large enough to run the 220vac 30amp Arc welder and toss it all in the back of the truck !.... but those 220vac inverters cost THOUSANDS! last one I saw was 5000watt and $6000 bucks!
LOL


Bob.....

[Manta]

Bob,

Thing is,  it would burn any hho as fast as it made it. Hence it would maybe make a firecracker but be of no use for general hho production.

But here is a variation.

As you probably know,  many Diesel engines use a pre combustion chamber to ignite the fuel.  It then expands into the cylinder bore.
What if you could arrange for a very fine pulsed spray of water into the chamber  then ignite it using the compression and a very high tension spark (Maybe a multi point spark plug).
I'm wondering if the compression would be enough to turn the (very small) quantity of water spray into a atate where the spark would cause it to ignite.

Probably wouldnt work;  just a thought.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

LOL I simply do NOT know !

 I would think that you could make a spray fine enough to break the molecules apart  just because of the pressure and spray.....  but to get EVERY water molecule in the spray to convert to gas would take an act of God not pressure! ...
seams to me that water is used to PUT out fires not start them... and I have thrown a bucket of water on a Huge bon fire before and seen the reaction... it almost explodes it expands so fast into steam...
...so perhaps we don't need to go any further than just changing the waters "STATE".... from liquid to gas....there is a great deal of force there !
....
perhaps that is what is being done in the Kids water-car.... perhaps its not exploding a all....just flashing to steam and running out the exhaust pipe....?

Gasoline expands something like 900 times when ignited (as a fuel/air mix)
I don't know How much water will expand to but it is a very large volume...
if its anywhere around 800~900 times  that kid might not even know the difference from flashing the water to steam and burning it as HHO... <GRIN>
... it would make some sense on a few details as well.... the need to heat the water, get it closer to the point of changing into steam.... rusting in the header pipes..... that shouldn't happen if its Burned HHO  but Should if its just STEAM !
...also our experiments show that an arc is not created by just using 120vac on a spark plug...
but it might if a mist is sprayed on it!....


...
 I'm thinking that the HP would be Reduced to about 50% of normal.... because of the lack of detonation.... but the force of changing the state of water from liquid to gas pushing the piston down
could in theory run an engine fairly well...
 it would generate heat because steam is HOT
....
hummm I wonder IF I can do that on a 3.5hp  B&S ?    
...
if my suspicions are correct , that kid didn't burn the water , he made a steam engine is all !
LOL
 

HAY ! one way to test this theory is to plug in a spark-plug into 120vac and sprey the electrode with a water spray !..... if it arcs that's the flashing into steam !
.... now is that theory correct ?





Bob...

[Bob]

Manta I started this thread to get other view points on that Kids claim that all he did was put 120vac from an inverter to his spark-plugs and then open up the jets in the carb and put water in the tank... ( my shortened version of what he did)
he claimed it worked and ran good... I don't see how it could but it would be a wonderful thing if it was just that simple !
 I'm now thinking that perhaps instead of turning the water into a gas and then igniting it...
he may have made a simple steam engine out of his car....
 I dunno how much electrical energy it would take to flash water mist into steam but I'm thinking enough to curl your hair! <grin>
...
what do you think Manta is this even possable ?
...
Bob......