Tube Cells

[Bob]

A while back Hydrotech made "Tube cells" out of sheet stainless steel by rolling the thin metal around a pipe and then tack welding the seams...
 he made 4 tubes this way 8" long, and made them fit inside one another with about 3/16" to 1/4" spacing between the tubes...
 the electrical hookup to these tubes is a bit tricky but He accomplished it by using stainless steel rod welded to the plates  that connect the tubes and then exit below each rod feeding 2 tubes
and then pouring in a liquid polymer or perhaps fiberglass resin to hold and seal the bottom of the tube
section...
 the top of the tube cell was glued together by using a hot glue gun and gobbing the plastic on and letting it cool so the tubes were secure top and bottom. this was done in a 4" PVC pipe as a container
which held the electrolyte.
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 You can purchase stainless steel tubing that fit together quite nicely  so just buying the right diameter tubing may well be the easiest method to making a tube cell
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 it is possible to get very close tolerances for plate gap doing this so it may well Entice Randy into going this route ! <GRIN> 
..a visit to the Metal supply place may net you plenty of tubing to make dozens of cells for far less money than buying plate!
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 Hydrotech's success with these cells is unprecedented ! , but I am sure he would want me to include that the cell is only Half of it ,i.e. ... "if you don't reduce the gasoline going to the engine you will gain NOTHING!"
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Bob....

[randy]

I know a guy that messes with tube cells, seems he was always tearing it down to clean, he used KOH, not sure of any other details other then it destroyed the engine he was using it on, he had a separate bubbler with just water in it but still managed to injest KOH, ate the pistons and the heads, I told him about K-aid, he tried it but it didn't work, I've always thought a cell using KOH would exhaust an amount of the electrolyte with steam, it does, take a hot cell using koh and put the output hose so that it's blowing onto some aluminum, leave it going about an hour and check it out. I refuse to use KOH.

[Bob]

Oh ICK !
 well I stopped using KOH because I couldn't keep it clean... but not because it hurts aluminum
I ran my KOH for about 3 months and so far I have yet to see any damage.... that doesn't mean anything however as you know... it probably means I was very lucky ! LOL
I had a bubbler on my unit as well, but used electrolyte in it as a recirculation tank of sorts...
 I did ingest the electrolyte one time by accident, I filled the containers both too full
but I caught it as it was setting there idling.... not running down the road so I stopped it fast and dumped some out and cured the problem!
....
 KOH and Aluminum definitely do not mix ! Koh will dissolve aluminum and create Hydrogen gas and some other nasty gasses along with it.... you can take a paint pressure pot and put a glass beaker inside with KOH in it and drop in aluminum scrap, the reaction gets very hot fast and will dissolve the aluminum .... its what is known as a "Cornish Generator"(sp)  and is how they used to fill blimps in the years past. (most pressure pots like that are themselves aluminum making them un-usable for the task as they will dissolve too!)...( most pressure cookers are aluminum also!, finding a cast iron pressure pot is not easy!  LoL)
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as far as spilling or spraying the Mist on aluminum  I haven't done that ...
  Have you Randy ?  does even that small amount dissolve the aluminum ?
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I imagine that his tube cells had large plate gaps...most do... but I was thinking that with real close fitting tubing you could use zip ties to keep the tubes from touching and have a Huge amount of plate area in a small package to play with that way ...



Bob.....

[randy]

yes the steam will etch the aluminum, in a running engine the effect is probably minimal due to combustion and heat, that along with the special handeling needed to use it has made me not want to use it. if your cell has close even spacing and alignment it will produce as well with K-aid as it would with KOH, close even spacing being key for use with K-aid.

[Bob]

Yah ! ok thats what I ment about the tighter fitting tubes.... something with say .05" clearance all the way around it  would work great with Koolaid !  or a Max of 1/16" I guess thats fairly tight fitting , but if you can slide the tube inside the other tube easily then its probably purdy close!LOL
if it hangs up its more than likely too tight! HAHAHHAH
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I have a few pieces of aluminum tubing out side that would slide together and leave me with a very fine gap..... if that were stainless steel I would have already used it ! LOL
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3 tubes will do the job nicely if you put the negitive leads to the outside and inside tubes and the positive tube is the one between them.
... they are impressive to watch that is for sure ...
 whats-his-face that did the Dune buggy years ago made his cells out of tubing and made them about 18" to 24" long  6 cells of only 2 tubes each and he had fantastic results.... I don't know what his gap was though darn it. but I expect it was something like 1/8" all the way around
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with a tube you can get more surface area than with plates for the package size....
 and size Does matter!.... in Hydroxy cells at least! <grin>
... so if you were to go with 3" tubing and go down in 4 steps keeping the spacing tight...
you'ed have more than enough plate area to handle any amps...
but sense you wouldn't get anymore than about 30 amps per cell you could shorten the tube height
and make them a short package... keeping in mind the .3 amps per square inch idea, I doubt the cell would be over 4" tall but produce the 10:1 ratio....
 put that short tube cell inside a 4" ABS or PVC pipe and you got it !
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I'm thinking that might be the way to go.... but I have to go to a metal shop and see if they have scrap enough so I can see how close they fit together THEN buy the needed tubing...
it may be really easy !
 I made 4 short tube cells out of steel and used a silver fork to plate the tubes  and then tried using them in a test... they produced OK but not like gang-busters because my gap was 1/4" but the goo leached out of the steel even though they were plated ! I had at least an inch of goo on top the bucket I tested it in ! .... so I gave up on tube cells till I could get stainless steel!
.... I will say that the tube cell I tested did out preform my wall switch plate cover cell by at least 2 or 3 times !  HAHAHAHHAA
 I used rubber hose (BLACK)as a separator between the tubes at first and they didn't produce hardly at all.... then I found that the black rubber hose had continuity through it...changed out all the black rubber with vinyl tubing and then they worked OK.... left it running in the bucket over night and that's when I got 1" of goo on top the water !
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Bob.....



 

[randy]

I've looked at stainless tube, it's expensive, didn't really see the sizes I needed for close gap, plates may take more space but are much easier to clean if needed and are readily found it seems, I've dedicated this saturday for getting the cell in the truck, just messing with it a little it shows promise, should do much better then the 2" washer cell, I'll soon find out. the rivers are blown out, look like chocolate milk, makes catching fish hard.

[Bob]

Ack ! sorry to hear about the bad fishing conditions ! I know you really enjoy getting out there and hooking into a big o'l salmon ! LOL
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with every cell design there are pro's and cons.... yes cleaning out a 4 layer tube cell would be almost imposable without using Muratic acid....
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 Stan was that fellers name.... I'll remember his last name later I guess ! 
(at least I think it was,LOL)
 his cells were actually quite simple if you didn't count the elaborate container and holder arrangement he fabricated for them. each cell was just 2 tubes one inside the other, straight off the shelf sizes....and the container held 6 of these 1" O.D. single cells ... the containers were expensive Acrylic tubes 6" in diam if I remember right ... (just one of those would set you back a Month on bill paying! Geez! )
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 I don't know what a 22guage wall thickness stainless steel tube would set ya back but it should be well under $50.00....for a 10ft length ,.... although the larger diameter stuff may well cost you much more.... I should look it up on "Online metals.com" lol
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if I remember correctly he had 6 such cells on his dune buggy and ran it for about a year on 100% hydroxy gas.
  for all the info given there wasn't all that much USEFUL information there....more like a news paper article than a scientific evaluation <GRIN>
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 Anyway if you or anyone out there, happen to have some stainless steel tubing laying out back you might be able to make a tube cell by just buying another S.S.tube and cutting them both up !
... its a thought!
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Bob......

[Bob]

Ahhh Stan Myers ! that's the fellers name !
LOL
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Bob.....

[randy]

tube cell dont work worth a crap, saw one on Mythbusters.
just kidding, I don't think they had any electrolyte in it, just water, hahahahaha

[Bob]

LOL I think your right ...and worse they called it "Busted" because they screwed up !
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Bob...

[randy]

Yeah, that show is subsidised by an oil company I heard, makes me wonder if they failed intentionally.

[Bob]

Well, the "Mythbusters" have tested everything about MPG gains that they can think of... including Magnets on the gas line that are supposed to Polarize the molicules of gas which makes it explode better....   they busted that too.... and I agree with them , it does no good at all ! LOL
but they are of the mind nothing will help gain gasmilage in todays cars Engines ... the engines are far more advanced than the layman can understand and you get what you pay for !
now changing the body shape they have found a few , very few improvements... even the tail gate tests on pickups they "Busted" and I know for a fact that your gas milage is better with the tailgate off!
because I tested it myself !.... ON MY OLD 1968 Dodge..... however with today's  fuel injection systems which are designed to dump a certain amount of fuel into the engine no matter what... I imagine they are correct... because the computer is designed to keep the MPG at a certain rate weather it needs it or not!
.... Consider this.... Take a Pickup...empty and run it 100miles and check the mileage.
 do the same trip with a full load and you can get very close if not the same mileage !   NOW THAT takes very careful engineering to get that kind of results.... IMPOSSABLE without a computer and extensive sensors....
  a older carburetor pick up would get say 24mpg empty and 10MPG or so loaded down
 but a newer truck won't do that they get 8~11MPG all the time loaded or not ! figure that one out!
that's not working for us in our favor its working against us in a big major way!
....
 that is WHY we need the Hydroxy generators !   in the proccess of getting the Hydroxy generators working good we find out how to stop the fuel brom being dumped into the engine when it isn't needed
.... example.... I started off getting 22MPG to 24MPG with my pickup when I first got it...completly stock .... after adding the Hydroxy generator and other modifications I got as High as 45MPG !
 the average was 42MPG to 45MPG...
 winter came and I took off the Hydroxy generator and I still am getting 41MPG STILL WITH NO Hydroxy generator ON IT!.... WHY ? because I figured out how to stop the needless wasted gas being dumped into the engine for no reason but to fatten the pockets of the stock holders of the oil companies!
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  So technically My gains of 41MPG to 45MPG with the Hydroxy generator are not that stellar by any means....  I obviously need MORE Hydroxy to get it higher... 
looking at it in that manor  it seams like a small gain from 41MPG to 45MPG... but remember I started out getting 22MPG to 24MPG MAX.....( which did incidentially get worse with a loaded truck by the way
I got as bad as 15MPG one trip but the bumper was almost dragging the ground and I had to go real slow to keep it on the road ! LOL!)
... MY truck is a 1985 model.... Not NEW !  this is why I get the difference in gas mileage that new trucks do not!   and Toyota does not dump fuel down the exhaust pipe as bad as ford,chevy or Dodge does.... they still do to a certain extent or they wouldn't be able to sell cars here in the USA
...they have to play along with the US Auto manufacturers or they will be "Black balled" ...
and No Auto manifacturer wants that !. ( meaning the in grained car companies will call their suppliers and say if you sell parts to this guy we will stop buying our parts from you! .... the suppliers comply and stop selling to them and they are S.O.L.!
.... this happened in the USA to the POUGH Carburetor, he moved to Canada so he could get parts, where he was robbed and put out of business again.
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 these Car companies do not play fair by any means ! they never have and never will our only hope is another type of car that they have no control of.... and theirs fat chance of that ! they have connections into everything.
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 I seriously expect that legislation will be passed soon that will stop the back yard guy from experimenting completely... California already has that in effect. you cannot change your car from stock.... PERIOD... but to date they have yet to in force that law.   but it is already there!
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 so Maybe Myth busters did fail them intentionally ...that's very hard to say... but I doubt it
they just screwed up ! HAHAHAHA they are "Professionals" you Realize! LOL !
Yah RIGHT!
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Bob.......