A on off float switch for the water tower.

[Bob]

About 3 days ago I embarked upon a project I have been putting off sense I was a Kid...
Not that its a really hard project... just one of those low priority ones that you always have something better to do ! hehehehhe
...
the problem is this... we pump water from our spring up to a water tower.... every day to make sure the tank is full.... over the years we have gone through 2 towers and about 5 tanks... this last one seams to be the best of all the tanks and its a 300gal poly tank.
When Mom bought it about 15 years ago I took my old Ham radio tower and made a tower out of the sections of it to hold the tank about 15ft off the ground... its been there every sense and working fine. 
 the problem with this system is ME... I forget to pump water, or I pump and forget to turn it off
or any combination of the two <GRIN>
recently I bought a timer and put it in line to automatically turn on the pump every day...
and that works ok... but I never know if the tower is FULL or not so I set the timer to come on 2 or 3 times a day and usually I have to turn off the pump because the tank is running over...
this wasts water big time... so I decided to get off my butt and make a float switch so it will Regulate the water level automatically....
....
the tank has a removeable lid... which I attached a 1" pipe flange and to that a 2" piece of pipe
a 1" Pipe "T" went on that short pipe and then another short piece of pipe on top...
this Pipe arangement is a guide for the S.S. Tubeing I am using to hold the float... the float is a Small 1qt propane bottle thats empty... and attached to a rubber hose on its neck which is attached to the tubeing... hose clamps hold it on and looks to be good and sturdy....
so the tubeing now will slide up and down depending on the water level as the float sits on the top of the water.....
I welded a rod that I bent in a strange shape to accomidate a Toggle switch (on a piece of flat stock with a hole in it  welded to the rod, for the switch to attach.
the switch is Upside down  so when the float raises it turnd the switch off... and when it lowers it turns the switch on....
 the switch triggers are S.S. fender washers bored out to snugly fit the tubing, hose clamps keep the washers from moving up or down when contacting the switch and silicone glue keeps them in place.
the reason for the strange Washer "switch throwers" is because the float and rod probably will turn and the tubing will still be the same distance from the switch  so it doesn't matter how the float is positioned the washers will still flip the toggle switch....
 if I had gone with simple arms to flip the switch I would have to have kept the tubing from turning,
this was my first idea and I saw problems galore with it...
... for weather proofing I just wrapped the switch in black tape and hooked a 100ft extension cord to the switch... because I dunno how much of the wire I will need to reach the pump electric line...but it should only be about 30ft.
...
all is ready to go except the silicone needs to dry completely... and I can put the cap back on the tower with its new float switch....
then all that is left to do is hook up the wires ...
its been a long time coming and it will be nice to not have to worry about water in the tower!
....
the Down side to this is,... it can (and will) pump the spring Dry if I use too much water and nothing will tell me that the pump ran dry and lost prime and won't pump water....so about a day later I'll run completely out of water and realize the pump isn't pumping!
...
so I will hook up the wall switch once again so I can turn it on and off manually at will. and take the timer out of line and use it somewhere else! hehehehhe
....
so that's what I've been doing lately !
...
Bob......

[Manta]

Bob,

...and nothing will tell me that the pump ran dry and lost prime and won't pump water....

Why not add another float that trips and rings a bell  when the water level is,  say,  half full ? That should get you out of the rocking chair and make you turn on the pump.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

Humm thats a thought ! a good one too !
 I ran a check on the float switch and the boyancy of the float isn't enough to flip the switch !
the tank filled up and ran over and never flipped the switch ! HEHEHEHHE
(I don't have it hooked up yet anyway, just checking it)
so I am making a Tupper-ware float ...I cut some plywood circles that will hold the tube into the bottom of the container.... I'll silicone up the top and try that... its about 3 times as big as the quart container so it should do the trick ! hehehehe
...
Bob.......

[Manta]

You need to use a micro switch,  not a toggle switch as they tend to need quite a lot of effort to knock them over. Or increase the leverage of the arm.
At the chicken factory we used tilting floats and the electronic probe type. The tilting floats are good as you can adjust the level simply by changing the length of the cable. They can be wired for normally on or off.  Maintenance free as well;  fit and forget.

Dave
(manta)

[crb]

You could put a pressure switch on the pump discharge (no pressure, no run)
if it runs out of water.

[Bob]

Manta... that's kind'a like a Mercury switch isn't it ? used to have a few of them laying around here ages ago....
problem is  the float goes straight up and down ... not on a lever... the tank isn't that big ...although I could rig one up I suppose...a Mercury switch sure would out last the contacts on a toggle switch !... all I have to do is put it on a cam and let the float tilt the thing... hummmm
come to think of it I saw some of those float switches at Lowes hardware the other day... I could simply put the switch in the tank and adjust the length of the wire/cable to get the amount of on/off that I want.... they were $27.00 though but I gave them serious consideration.... if I have trouble with my switch going south on me I'll probably invest in one and be done with it! HEHEHEH

...
CRB... that's a good idea...but how do I wire it to come on then ? no pressure no run.... when the pump is off there is no pressure ! pump on there is pressure unless there is no water.... 
...
I'm using a normal shallow well pump with a pressure switch on it but it is backed off and doesn't do anything... but I can turn it on here at the house and run over there (about 1/4 miles away) and stick a stick in there between the contacts and turn the pump off... then prime it and put the cap back on and remove the stick, re cover the thing and all is done.
so basically its always on and I  disconnect the power here at the house ...
when I put the switch in line I will leave the switch in the house ON all the time and let the float turn it on and off automatically.... at least that's the plan.
...
Bob......

[Manta]

Bob,

Not quite the same.  Imagine the float sitting on top of the full tank of water,  the supply cable attached to a beam across the tank and hanging slack.
As the water fall the cable will eventually reach it's limit and become taught. When it does this it will cause the float to rotate so that it can hang on the cable.  This rotation,  or tilting,  will cause the switch inside the float to make (or Break,  as required) and this will switch on the pump
As the water level rises the cable will fall down in a loop from the float causing it to revert back to it's original position and thus switching the other way and knocking off the pump.

Dave
(Manta)

[crb]

How about a high and low level light so you know when to turn it
on and off?

[Bob]

Yah Gotcha Manta ! that is the switch that I found in the hardware store.... might just opt for one if this switch I made up gives me much trouble !
...
CRB...  Actually I don't think I'll need it. I think once I get it going correctly it will be a
 "set it and ferget it" type thing... it will take care of itself !  if, once or twice a year I run out'a water I'll handle it then ! heheheheh  I noticed that I can tell the water level in the tank just by looking now at the float rod... when I went by it this morning it was all the way up so the tank was full...
heck the float switch is worth it just for that convenience! HAHAHAHHAHA
...we have a site tube in the side of the tank that I put in there when I installed the tank umpteen years ago but you can't see through the vinyl tube now... yet alone see the float in it.
....
i was going to wire the switch up this morning but I took the wife out to buffet breakfast instead, and now its too hot so fooie on it ! HAHAHHAHA
...
Bob......

[Manta]

crb,

Problem with that is,  what if you aren't there ?

Dave
(Manta)

[crb]

I guess if you arn't there, you are not using any water.

[Bob]

Well do far do good... that switch has been maintaining the water level just fine...
now I have to weather proof it....that should be a challenge...
perhaps a gallon jug with the top cut off and just slip it over the entire thing ! HEHEHEHE
....
Bob....

[Manta]

crb,

I was thinking of automatic plant and animal watering.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

well, we actually do live like a bunch of animals out here....so a watering system fer animals should do the job just fine ! LOL !
...
i haven't got around to the cave painting yet.... but that don't mean we're not PRIMITIVE!  HAHAHAH
...I can make arrow-heads out'a rock.... even better if ya have obsidian or such like... but I prefure a rock with a hole drilled in it and tied to a stick.... makes a High tech club! LOL !
(makes finding a wife much easier ya see!)
...I tried to make a wheel out'a a rock one time but it split in half just about the time the hole was going to break through.... so there went my hopes for transportation ! <GRIN>
....
jk.
Bob.....

[Bob]

Well, the switch and float system I put on the water tower has been working great now all summer it has saved us so much water that the pond that is below our spring has started to re fill ! first time in a good 30 years !  ...
 I  do need to climb up the tower soon and put some sort of Rain hat on that switch to keep it dry
 I may just stick a plastic waste basket over the thing and call it good ! LOL
... but I dunno quite yet !
... there is no doubt in my mind that I should have put that switch in 50 years ago !
I really didn't expect it to SAVE me water but it has by the tons already ... this time of the year the pond is always dry and has been all summer... but because of the switch there is a good 2 ft of water in the pond below the spring....the pond WAS dry as a bone when I installed the switch after about a month I went over there and there was about 1 ft of water in the pond! I was Quite surprised!
 That has many benefits.... one real big one is keeping the local bear out of the spring when he wants to bathe.... now he can play in the pond like he used to ! LOL !
...
Bob....

[Bob]

LOL Everything has been fine all summer with the water system... I climbed up the tower and simply put a 5 gal bucket over the switch and it seamed to cover it just fine , so I left it that way...
this morning I noticed the water in the torlet was kind'a merky.... not clear at all... didn't think much of it... but should have.
 this evening I noticed a high pitched wine  like an electric motor running, ...one of the neighbors I thought... I went outside a bit ago and fed the cats AGAIN...as they were acting like they were starving!  and I hurd the high pitched wine again... and its 2:00am.... my neighbors are asleep!
so I walked up to the water tower and climbed the tower and sure enough the float was all the way down and the switch was on... I lifted the float ,turned the switch off and the high pitched wine stopped
I thought OH NO!  the spring is dry!
 I checked the water level in the tower and its way down probably only 50 gallons in it at the moment
... so I stuck some sticks in the slide to Jam the float up so it wouldn't turn on the pump any more and went over to the pump to see what the problem was...
and some "Blankety Blank!" RACOON got in there and lifted the plastic sheeting off the bottom all the way around the foot valve and in the entire spring   every bit of it has been lifted up off the bottom
and now I have to go re set it or replace it ! ...
he could'a got the frogs in the pond I don't care but when he tears the hell out of the spring that means WAR !
... anyway... I got the spring to repair tomorrow... hopefully its not too bad
the pump is supposed to be able to handle running dry... it has never ran dry for that long before but hopefully it will be ok ! we'll see I guess !
... one thing about life on the ranch .... your never done, something always comes up that has to be done soon ! ... and I don't have any cattle because they take so much time and money to raise...
what would it be like if I had 30 head ? LOL !
....
oh well....such is life ! HAHAHAHA!
...
Bob....

[Manta]

Hey Bob,

Any sign of the winter appearing in your area ? or are you too far south .

I'm in the midle of boarding-out and insulating my outhouse to use as a warm machine shop. Primarily to keep the rust off my new milling machine.  At least I hope it will be warm.  I have an old central heating radiator that is to be used,  in a suitable glass box,  as a solar panel to try and catch some of the low angle winter sun. I noticed that my car was still quite warm even when the air temp was -10C due to it being parked facing south. If it only provides free heat for this one outhouse it will be a help.
We are due to get out quarterly gas/electric bills in  a couple of days.  Electric is about $0.50 per Kw/Hr for the first 118 Kw/Hr,  then it goes down to half of that for the rest.  So there is money to be saved.

Dave
(Manta)

p.s.  How's the water pump ? 

[Bob]

Well We have Rain here today, but got the water tank topped off and back on automatic...so that should be the last I have to mess with that for a while .
 I Look for Acorns here to let me know winter is HERE.... so far just a few have dropped... so we have a while yet I think.... normially at this time of the year the acorns cover the ground...but they are late this time!.
...
 I made what they called a "HOT BOX" for my trailer house in Vinton, Ca. near Reno Nv. when we lived over there... and it worked fantastically!... My Brother in Law made one and was bragging about it to me so I thought I'ed give it a try too... what I did was take trailer house Skirting that came in lengths of 2 ft x 12" wide and bent it in the center lengthwise to make a "V" out of it. I nailed a bunch of these to a 4'x8' x3/4" plywood piece and put 1"x6" boards around the edge of the plywood and then a piece of hog wire accross the top to support the plastic covering...
I later added another piece of hog wire and another piece of plastic to make a 4" dead air space for insulation on the top.... the alumimun skirting or aluminum flashing was painted high temp flat black
and then the whole unit was covered well with CLEAR plastic tarp....
a 4" hole in the bottom and a 4" hole in the top were the only air inlet and outlets...
I put 2 holes in the house one at floor level and another at the top of the Hot box on the south facing side (happened to be the bedroom,the coldest room in the house)... the floor vent went to the bottom intake of the air box, the top of the hot box went through the wall into the bedroom... plastic coffee can lids were used to cap off the hot box at night... it worked fantastically.. during the day it kept the entire house warm even in the 20's to low teens.   at night I capped it off
and waited for about 10am to open it back up... the air coming out of that hot box was 120 degrees on a good day...80~90 degrees on a bad day, with rain or snow.
...
a Hot box can be made real easy and if you used aluminum flashing as your heat collectors its fast and easy to make up....just staple it in place. painting it "high temp Flat Black" is the secrete to getting good heat out of one of these things!... after about 3 years I noticed it wasn't putting out much heat and went out and looked and almost all the black paint was pealed off ! LOL !
so I re painted it !
... a 4'x8' hot box would definitely heat your outhouse/shop...  in fact it may be too much ! but you can leave a window open if you have to ! LOL
...
buying the SUPER CRYSTAL CLEAR Storm window Plastic would be the ticket to really good heat production ...
and if you laid 1/2" copper tubing up and down the flashing and ran it in the same manor to your water Radiator (with the intake low and output high) I am sure it would even keep the radiator hot!
...
However, when the sun goes down the heat stops and it will reverse and suck the heat out if you don't stop it in some way.
...
I didn't want noisy fans on my hot box but I understand that they will quadroople the heat output if you use them.
...
eventually I hope to make a Stand alone Hot box for the house here that is 2  4'x8' pieces and place it in the sunny spot in the front yard... next to the house is too shady... and we need that shade in the summer heat, but winter time it would be nice to have the hot boxes... here they would take away the burning of wood pellets during the day and well worth making ! they would pay for them selves in a few months!
...
I do have to wonder why you'ed put your new Milling machine in your outhouse.... seams a poor place to get sharp metal fragments all over the place specially if your Using the outhouse for its intended purpose ! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA!
...
Bob...

[Bob]

I have learned one thing by making my own float and switch for the water tower....
if I ever have to do it again I will simply go down and pay the $26.00 for the "Floating switch"
it would have been much simplier to hook up and I wouldn't have to have bought a $11.00 trash can to cover the switch and float system to keep the rain off if it !
...add to that that that type of switch usually lasts for a good 5 years or more it would have been money saved !
... but all in all...if the toggle switch burns out it will be a cheap replacement cost of only $3~$5
bucks....
  it works and works good and has done so reliably now for all summer... only the Racoon has messed up the spring...and that would have happened regardless of the switch I used!
...
Bob....

[Manta]

Darn those raccoons.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

Yah ! thats what I said ! LOL!
...
Bob...

[crb]

Racoon's don't like wasp-spray.......
Haven't seen them back, yet.

[Bob]

Hummmm.... if I sprayed the "wasp spray" on the outside of the spring maybe they would leave the entire thing alone ?   Its worth a try ! thanks for the info !...
I'll havt'a be careful not to get it inside, or where rain could carry it into the drinking water...
but that SHOULD be do-able !
....
Thanks CRB !

[Manta]

Bob,

Maybe that 'cat pepper' stuff that is used to stop lats 'manuring' your garden will work with raccoons.
Can't try it for you as we don't have raccoons. Or bears,  rattlers,  scorpions or other things that spoil you day.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

LOL  Lats "Poopin' in the garden ?  ...OH Cats ! GOTCHA! ... hay that's free fertilizer why would ya wann'a stop that ?  ... anyway... that's a good idea too... probably less harmful to humans but I wouldn't bet on it till I read the label ! LOL !
...
 I'm not one to go scraping up Road apples off the road for the garden but I have been known to get the tractor loader full and  spread a bunch of horse or cow manure in the garden area and rototiller it in........
 but Now with no Cows or Horses to worry about... I think I'll turn to a compost pile instead... and ignore the Lats...er Cats ...  HEHEHEHEHEHEHE
....
Bob...