The Cell Setup

[H²+O]

I started a new job so i haven't really been doing much for the last 8-9 months. but i really feel this is the way i want to go in life, meaning getting this sucker into production!! I started off by thinking that i wanted something that would go in my vehicles; ( 85 dodge w250, 89 Honda accord, 82 Nissan/Datsun sentra, 87 Toyota truck 22R.) My Brothers cars; ( later 90s Buick and Mitsubishi, and numerous vw bugs from the 70s) and also my dads stuff (00 Toyota Tacoma, and older 21yard dump bed ford farm truck it's a 600 i think). so this is what i figure i can slap in them all without having to do too much adjusting to the generator system.

i know there is stuff i'm missing (Got really tired), i'll get more detailed later when i have more time and i'm not pooped. but for now let me know what you think.

[janmarsh]

Hi Steve,
        I,m interested in you're use of airstone in the system. Some use the material in their flashback arrestor's & claim success.  What is it you feel you are gaining by using airstone at this point ?   Do you not think with finer bubbles a tendency will be created for them to stay in suspension & some be drawn back through the pump.  The more rapidly they collect as a whole from the liquid the better I would have thought.

Keep us informed of you're progress.............  very interesting.             Marshall.

P.S.     I think you will have to consider larger bore tubing  between you're cells & bubbler. 1" bore I have in my plans. 12 volt plastic bilge pumps make ideal circulators. I feel  we have to talk in gallons per minute for circulation.   

[H²+O]

the way i figure the airstones is that when the really fine bubbles go up and pop it will create less splash leading to less chemical water going into the hose and having to be taken out by the mist separator. my biggest thing right now is i don't want any KOH getting into my engine

[janmarsh]

Good point !

[H²+O]

you're right about the larger tubing.. thing is i can't find the nylon parts for it! the pumps are 1/4" and same with the mist separator, thing with the Mist separator is that it is rated @ 200 lpm with a Working Pressure of 7-145 psi... so I'm not sure how large the hose really has to be?? plus i'm going to rig it so that it can run with pressure in the system no problem like tightening the pipe to the fittings so nothing will blow apart LOL

[janmarsh]

I refer to the liquid circulation being 1" ish. 

[Bob]

a in line gasoline WATER TRAP "Should" stop any liquid from getting into the engine...baring that a Pipe "T" with a short length of pipe and a cap will do the job... (place the pipe down so water collects in it)
... I do not like the COMBINATION reserve fluid and bubblier ... a cell like that will run Hot if you get good production out of it and you need at least a gallon of liquid to circulate through it.... then go to a bubblier with a Pop off cap, your container has no pop off cap and is a bomb waiting to happen.
...
also use heavy gauge wire to wire the plates up... not #10 but at least #8 or bigger (depending on the amperage you plan on running)
a heavy duty relay capable of being ON all the time that is connected to the ignition switch so the thing is never left on.
...
its best to have a POP off cap on the reservoir and the bubblier so you have enough room so you can clean them out good.... not to mention the safety factor....
...
one cell like that probably isn't going to be enough for a big gas mileage increase, so plan on mutable cells on the vehicle you drive the most.
...
larger connecting hoses is a good thing! but don't forget about the connectors , some times they restrict the flow worse than anything !... you may have a 1/2" diam hose but the push on connectors only have a 3/8" inner diameter!... so go bigger than you think you need.
...
Also it looks like you plan on Alternating the gap on the plates... the gap must be on top so the gas can bubble out .... a single hole say 3/8" or 1/2" at the top left cornor of each plate would be better than a slot across the top... then when mounting it place it so that line of holes is UP
...
... that's all I can think of right at the moment !
hope that helps
Bob...

[H²+O]

about the holes in the plates, i was thinking that if the water is run through the system like that then all the hho bubbles will be pushed away from the plates quickly. as for the cap, If i use one of those rubber ones with the tightening band and maybe have the hose coming out of the tank beside the lid instead of the top? let's say I Add a pvc bubbler to that system right after the tank, that way it has two bubblers.

Those plates are going to be spaced by Oatly Shower pan liner which is .762mm or you can get it 1.016mm

what is the amp's per sq" again? that cell there is (actual plate area exposed to water) 3 1/8" x 2 1/4"

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[Bob]

Steve...
I am Assuming that the Yellow in the drawing above is the Holes through each plate.
if you stack plates like that and cause them to bubble the plate/cell's that have the slot at the bottom will eventually run 1/2 dry or completely empty.... trust me !
...
what your building is a very small cell  and its output is going to reflect that.... 2LPM at 20 amps will be about as much as you can get....
Keep in mind PLEASE that 2LPM into a 350c.i.d.V8 engine is a drop in a very large bucket...
...best case senerio on a pre-smog V8 properly tuned and getting 20mpg you might gain a whopping 2mpg maybe as much as 5mpg....but certainly not much more than that...infact I'ed be pleased to see a 2mpg increase...
 Not much is it!?!?!?!  but that can be increased a great deal by simply adding more Hydroxy gas
My old rule of thumb is  something like 5LPM per Liter of engine displacement and you can then expect a 10mpg to 20mpg increase in gas mileage....
... so as it sets you'd need 3 or 4 of those cells... all drawing 20amps (say 80amps,at 8LPM output)
in order to achieve a 20mpg increase in a med. size V8.( most likely it would be a substancially larger jump in MPG... but it is really a guessing game.)
.... most Alternators now days on cars are only 60~65 amps, so to run that many cells a new altenator needs to be installed, one of 100 to 150amps
(obviously smaller engines don't need that much in LPM)
...
another thought is a 1/8" hole in the bottom corner of each plate (alternate from rt. side to lft. side.) to allow electrolyte circulation and keep ALL the cells full....this gives the electrolyte a secondary route into each cell while the gas goes out the top)
...
Some times, the electrolyte will fail to fill all the cells in a dry cell when its running for a long time....because the Electrolyte is fighting the gas coming out, and the cells won't fill properly with a single hole at the top.
...
 many guys have reported no trouble at all with a single hole through all the plates(at the top where the bubbles collect in each cell) it really depends upon the set up... tight plate spacing, small hoses, all play a part in the cells running.
...
Bob.....

[Manta]

Steve,

...plus i'm going to rig it so that it can run with pressure in the system ...

How much pressure were you thinking of ? and how are you going to control the gas flow to the engine ?

Remember that if the hydroxy system is under pressure it will continue to supply gas to the engine after you take your foot of the pedal. this could cause vehicle control problems as it will tend to keep the engine revving when you expect it to be idling. I believe Bob experienced similar problems with his car not wanting to slow down when coasting down hill.

Manta