Lazar's car

[janmarsh]

Lazar's own words............quote:

Cars typically require around 700 to 1,000 liters of gas per minute to cruise at normal speeds.
These 'under the hood' kits you see for sale produce on average about 1 liter of gas per minute.
It's simple math.
                           unquote.

My test car is only 600cc but I will need more cells going by this !   

[Bob]

Ok, if those figures are correct which I doubt because it is terribly HIGH !(More than likely derived from the displacement times RPM figures which is very very wrong!)
but lets say for a small v8 500~700 LPM is necessary to run the engine at cruse speed
 then I just as well chuck it all in and forget all about running my truck on 100% hydroxy gas !
... Believe me when I tell you those figures are NOT correct !
there is no way that I know of except perhaps an arc generator that would get anywhere near that kind of production ... so obviously you'd have to store it up over time Like Bob Lazar has
...if the containers in the back of his car each hold 2000liters (which is unlikely that they are that big) with 4 tanks, he has 8,000liters of stored Hydrogen available... that leaves him enough fuel to cruse for a minimum of 8 minutes.... not 400miles. (barely enough time to go 10miles)
...
 SO.... something is amiss !  those figures for me are suspect first off....
700 to 1,000 liters per minute at cruse speed ? I seriously doubt you can get that much air out of a 3/8" air hose at 110psi ! for goodness sake !  there is no way an engine needs that much gas to run it...it may well PUMP that much AIR at that cruse speed but it won't need that much FUEL !
....
Have you ever ran a V8 by squirting gasoline directly down the throat of the carburetor ? at about 3000 RPM it takes a steady drip of fuel is all,teetering on the verge of a steady stream.
gasoline is more compact than Hydroxy gas or Hydrogen gas and it is mixed with air at the rate of 14:1 .... 14 parts air to 1 part gasoline.
 so if you just say 14 times that steady fast drip you'd have the amount of fuel needed to run the v8 at 3000rpm at a constant rate. (a small 1/4" gas line will supply that much fuel easy)
but we are leaving out the air here.... and you can't do that if your trying to figure a GAS and not a liquid...
 Now is when the displacement times RPM starts to come into play... but ONLY starts because the engine runs in a state of vacuum most of the time, and ONLY gets all the air it wants when the throttle is wide open, (even then there is still a bit lacking because it takes a vacuum to suck in the air)....
....so with the throttle only 1/4 open how much air does it suck in ?  7liter engine times 3000rpm=
21,000 liters/4=5250liters...per minute... but we need fuel to burn in that air... if your running pure hydrogen its 20 to 30:1 ratio so say 25:1  (5250/25=210 liters per minute)
... now that's a 7liter V8 at 1/4 throttle at a 25:1 ratio of hydrogen to air and its 210 liters per min...  something you could get through a 3/8" line but it would be singing a tune !
if he has 8000liters of storage capacity that's only 38.09 minutes at cruse speed....
again far far short of 400miles, as your lucky to get 40miles in 40min (60mph =1mile per min)
...
so his storage capacity has to be incredibly high.... in the Hundreds of thousands of liters to get 400miles or he is running 40:1 or leaner or both...and a smaller engine...
from that video we do not have enough information to sneeze at....
...
 so by my figures instead of the 700~1000 liters per min,  I come up with 210 liters per min. on a very big engine.... calculate that to a 2.4liter Toyota and the figures get much more reasonable !
and 100% Hydroxy gas powered, becomes possible.
...
Bob......

[Manta]

Bob,
Actually the idea of an old tv and a few cans may not be as far off as you may at first think.  At work we have a spectometer. Basically it is a tube which has the sample to be 'sparked' placed across the end. The sample is insulated from the tube and becomes the anode (I think) whilst the electron gun is down the other end. A high vacuum is created in the tube and the assembly essentially becomes very similar to a tv tube. The shower of sparks from the electron beam are analysed by a computer. I've no idea how Lazar does it, but there may be a way based on the above.

As for the production of the hydrogen. He does mention that he uses solar as there is plenty of sunshine in New Mexico. So it looks like like a matter of simply letting the sun do all the work. Some kind of Hoffman apparatus is all you need. Over the days you could build up a very large stock.

Manta

[Bob]

you certainly could... if you had a way to store it.... Like he says he has !
i have a feeling his Hydrogen output is very low even though he mentioned that his generator was the equivalent of an industrial generator... because he said the average output is 1lpm
and we surpassed that years ago... in Hydroxy output... but separating the oxygen at the same time as its made is no small task and takes a different type of cell than the type we have been building... not much different but they are different enough to have to re make the cell completely from scratch ! LOL !
 I drew up plans for a larger cell that would separate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen and have a decent output as well (theoretically anyway) a long while back,while I was still on the mountain.  so I am fairly certain I could get a decent amount of pure hydrogen if I wanted it
....but at the moment I like the Hydroxy gas   ....it goes boom real good just the way it is !
...
its hard to say about his Partical Accelerator... its probably something as simple as passing the hydrogen through a real strong magnetic field or something equally as silly!<GRIN>
...but not knowing the specifics  its just guessing!
...
I would really love to know more about the metal hydrate Method of storing Hydrogen though!
 it sounds like the answer for safe storage of large amounts of hydrogen...that in itself
can be worth allot to me... as I could store enough hydrogen through the summer months to burn hydrogen gas in the winter to keep me warm , just from solar power! a zero cost heating bill would save me a bunch of money... right now I am spending $4.75 per 40lb bag of wood pellets and I go through 1 bag a day.... that adds up fast !...not to mention the hassel of getting the bags and all that., still its much cheaper than heating with OIL !
LOL
...
if you or anyone run across a link to information on Metal Hydrate please post it !
...
Bob.....

[Bob]

Ok I did a bunch of reading and watched Lazar's video again and did some more searching
and I finally found something of interest...
this is a small piece from the Wiki-pedia site.
...
"Lithium-6 deuteride can also be used as a storage vessel for use in hydrogen vehicles. Li-6-D can be made by heating lithium-6 and deuterium gas (from electrolyzing heavy water) in a hermetically sealed container to 600-700 C. Safety

LiH is flammable in air, and it reacts explosively with water to give corrosive LiOH together with hydrogen gas."
...
evidently this is what he is using as a storage materiel... and although the hydrogen is not a safety issue the Lithium-6 deuteride certainly is ! .... Under Normal conditions its safe granted. but what happens if a car wreck occurs in a rain storm and rain gets to a ruptured tank ?
he has enough Lithium-6 in those tanks to level 7 city blocks !...
 but I suppose your not supposed to know that !<GRIN>
...
granted in the containers the stuff is in its relatively safe  as long as water doesn't get to
the "Salt looking" crystals  your fine .
...
being a Nuke Phd I suppose he over looks the obvious dangers as a matter of every day course... but it burns in AIR... and explodes in water... both of which can be found in abundance on any road trip... and in a car where bad things can and do frequently happen to its occupants... there is Nothing to insure that the Lithium Hydride is going to be kept out of those elements...
  this mans cure is worse than the disease !
... I hope I am wrong and I got the wrong info about this, but if I'm right... he is an IDIOT!
...he is not driving around in a hydrogen bomb, he is driving around in a Lithium-6 deuteride
bomb that has the potential of being 5000 times worse !   DUH !
...
My Dad worked at the proving grounds at Areo-Jet General, and played with exotic fuels and exotic rocket designs back in the 50's and 60's  they would walk by a huge block of Lithium about the size of a box car and stick their fingernails in it and get a chunk under their fingernail and  then flick that piece into a puddle and have a good time surprising people with it... especially when half the people were shell shocked from all the explosions going on in that place all the time...
 that is until L.A.County discovered that they had been shipping such large blocks of Lithium to Areo-Jet Via Rail car through the city... there was enough explosive potential in a single rail car to level the entire L.A. basin ! ... Lithium or any of its counter parts is very very explosive...think of nitro glycerin and you got the picture!
anyway after that it was shipped in 2ft blocks only 1 per train only (in a special car.)
....

Bob....

[janmarsh]

Bob,  Dont know if you have yet found this info.

http://www.metall.com.cn/lani.htm?gclid=CJaF6uSMxJ4CFVtn4wodEmOPpQ

[Tink]

Guys,
I emailed Bob Lazar and he gave me permission to post his reply:

From: sales@unitednuclear.com
To: genetheinstaller@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Water (HHO)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 11:20:04 -0500

Hello Gene,

Yes, all Metal Hydrides react with water, some quite violently, some just bubble a bit and are typically destroyed or rendered useless when exposed to air.

They react similarly to the alkali metals (Sodium, Potassium, Lithium). Pure Sodium & Potassium will produce Hydrogen gas so fast and hot that they catch fire & explode, Lithium will typically just bubble & steam a lot.

We do use about 10% Lithium-6 Deuteride in our proprietary Metal Hydride blend that stores the Hydrogen in our Smart Tanks.

Cut in half, Ignited, shot with incendiary bullets or immersed in water, our full Smart Tanks never do more than smolder in a worst-case scenario.

Our Hydride blend does not react violently with water, it does degrade though. Adding water to it will cause the material to bubble and quickly oxidize, then crumble apart.

We’re not really fans of HHO here. It is dangerously explosive and can never be stored safely making it useless as a fuel.

There are also so many scams out there involving HHO attempting to convince people that water is a fuel.

As I’m sure you know, it will always take more energy to extract any useful fuel from water than you can ever get from burning it. Water itself is not a fuel.

The nonsense clams of many fly by night HHO companies shed a bad light on Hydrogen fuel in general as most people think they are the same.

Although I think HHO does have some limited use, for the most part, HHO devices have been around for a very, very long time and in reality they have never found much real-world use.

Still, I think research into it is worthwhile and I wish you the best luck in your endeavors. Modern technology & materials may allow you to uncover new and useful applications for the gas.

You might find some useful  HHO data here:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4310717.html

-Bob Lazar, CEO

United Nuclear Scientific

239 E. Grand River Rd. (P.O. Box 373)

Laingsburg, MI. 48848

517-651-5635

website: www.unitednuclear.com

Customer Service: customerservice@unitednuclear.com

Technical Support: sales@unitednuclear.com

[janmarsh]

Wow Tink,  Who else would have thought to go straight to the man.  A very fair, detailed reply also.  Should leave us all with optimism that we garden shed researchers may hit on it one day.

[Bob]

Ok so he's not an Idiot, and has tested that portion of the problem... GOOD glad to hear it !
10% isn't much by volume and I suspect he is correct in his smoldering statement... that's Kool !
... it sounds to me like he has the cure to the foreign oil problem already whipped...
each one of us could make enough hydrogen to power our own cars given enough time. the problem is STORAGE... and we still know no more than what was said in the video...
it doesn't look like a thing for the back yard do-it-your-selfer...but I'll try anything !
...
  I wounder if he would give you details on how to make the hydrate he uses Tink ?
 If I could power my truck in the same way he has done I'ed do it in a hart beat and leave HHO because of the dangers it presents ...after all, "a Foooom is much better than a big KABOOOOM !" LOL
if you get my meaning ! HAHAHAHA
...
He seams like a real nice guy to have answered your questions, you can't blame him for his statements against Hydroxy gas because he doesn't have our experience with it... I achieved double my MPG on my truck using HHO...but I'd MUCH rather run on pure Hydrogen given the chance ! and do away with gasoline completely !
...
Thanks for the info Tink ...much appreciated !
(and you can send him this reply if you fill inclined to <GRIN>)
invite him to Hydroxyhut.com... We'ed love to have his brains here ! HAHAHA
....
Bob...

[Tink]

I was surprised he replied so soon and honestly too. It does sound like he wants to keep his 'propriatory mix to himself. Can't blame him for that. If he can get this thing going it could be a gold mine. We all know the time is right for this sort of thing. I will pass your comments along Bob. By the way my wind turbine stopped turning and I'm tearing it apart to try to fix a shorted coil in the stator. I may just send it back to Forcefield and let them repair it. They did offer to make me a new one but that may take too long. I just got back from Show Low 20 miles away to get 6 foot of allthread to make jack bolts to lift the front rotor off the stator and take a look. We're getting that blizzard so the roads were treacherous to say the least.

ps. Google Bob Lazar
this guy is the real deal.

Tink

[Bob]

Ack ! sorry to hear the wind generator stopped working so soon ! that's not good at all!
...
Kind'a sounds like you over loaded it Tink, and one of the coils burned up and pushed its way on to the hub and stopped it from turning.... because I doubt the berrings would go bad that fast!
...
Let me know what ya find in that thing Tink .... hope its just a birds nest ! LOL
...
Bob.......

[Manta]

Yes, it was very decent of Lazar to reply in such an objective manner. particularly as he has suffered such a slagging in the press.

Here's another middle-of-the-night thought.
I wonder if Lithium can be extracted from old batteries ?

Manta

[Tink]

Manta,
I think you stated in another thread that you don't think an engine can feed itself. Don't forget the more HHO it consumes the more H2O you need to feed it. It's just the oil companies have us all believing we need to keep feeding our vehicles huge amounts of gasoline or diesel. The very nature of this plane of existence tells us that there is no possible way to create a perpetual motion machine, everything is dying here. Come to think of it perpetual motion may well be the ultimate goal of human kind but we have to escape the lower levels of life to achieve it. Maby that is what being a God is all about.   Sorry, but we gotta get esoteric sometime.

Bob,
I tore apart the wind turbine alternator and it is truly a shorted stator coil. There is no sign of rubbing or scrapping or anything except some wires that look 'not kosher'. With the front rotor and stator removed the hub turns smoothly. I'm sending back the stator for replacement. Dan at Forcefield is being very helpful. I just hope this doesn't take too long.   
Tink

[Bob]

Wise move Tink ! that's what I'd do ....send it back !
odd that it worked for a little while and then burned up... probably just never got to that point of produceing that much power.... must'a had a good wind the other night and fried it
...get on his case and tel him to ship it to you FAST as you NEED IT... other wise he'll ship it normal freight and that is what takes the time !  express delevery ! DEMAND IT ! LOL
...
Bob...

[Bob]

Our scientists say there is no such thing as a perpetual motion engine because to qualify to be a "Perpetual Motion engine" the devise/engine has to either  replace its fuel completely or not use any fuel in the first place.... in other words get waste "Motion/energy" and not consume anything in the process... and Physics says that's imposable because of the conservation of motion laws
 However if you change that Qualification to be able to add fuel which some scientists have done then we have had Perpetual motion engines sense the first "Water Wheel"
...
I have seen a magnetic motor that spun all the time needing only one push to get it started...it used nothing but magnetic power and reached its speed of equilibrium quickly... it ran for hours while the inventor and I were talking.... he was trying to sell his invention at the time and envisioned a sute case size electrical generator that ran 24/7 to power a house... (personally I think that vision was way off the mark because of the power needed and the device only had a tiny fraction of power to give)
he moved away and that was the last I hurd of him or his engine.
 so Yes Perpetual Motion can be achieved but the resulting power output is extremely low...
we will have better Perpetual energy makers when they prefect fusion,and start breaking the strong and weak nuclear forces for the generation of electricity.
....
 JFYI that little magnetic motor the guy came up with was very simple there were 3 magnets in it I believe (maybe 4)( cheep ones from radio shack) and 2 geared wheels that turned at different raits
the big wheel about 8~12" in diam. was vertical and the smaller one was horizontal...
it was made out of brass tubing from the hardware store all soldered together with the exception of the magnets they were hot glued on .......
 I think the gearing was 2:1 but not sure... its been like 30 years ago and I don't remember that much about it , other than it realy looked neet !... there were a few things the guy would not tell me about.... and he was super paranoid... I suppose I was very lucky just to see it ! LOL
...
 People get real funny when they think they have the "World by the Ass" and a fortune in their ideas.
 I have about 4 inventions , maybe 5 to my list that I have come up with , but learned early on that its near imposable to market such a thing... and you have to have a good business head on your shoulders... which I do not have ...so I don't let it worry me any more , and I don't have to live in fear of the oil companies or the aviation community or the electricity companies, or the car companies.... because none of them like competition... its the American way! LOL
...
Unfortunately, Bob Lazar's Car does Look like the real deal... but coming up with a copy of it for our own use looks imposable... because of the Hydrate storage problem...
 More power to him, but when he runs afoul of the car companies and gets black-balled I do hope he puts his design out on the net for all to have ! <GRIN>
...
Bob.......