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Bob
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« on: September 24, 2009, 05:19:27 am » |
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I saw a program on the "planet mechanics" that interested me... I recorded it and have watched it about 4 times now....
sense then I have surfed the web in an effort to find more information on a Wood Gas producer...
my surch was rewarded by down loading a 10meg .pdf File that covered the FEMA's report and instructions on how to build a unit for a tractor !
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I have poured over this file and read it through 3 times now ( my eyes hurt!) but I am convinced I can make one fairly easy now !...
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and I have a PERFECT Canadate for the Wood Gas Project... My O'l Dodge Pickup... simply because I can't drive it when it gets such lousie gas mileage ! and I know it ...inside and out... I can take off the fuel vaporization system on it and replace it with a Wood gas Generator... and I should be able to run it for no cost at all.... because I have allot of trees and brush here !
and that's free fuel !!!!!!!!! (unlike the vaporizer...where no matter how good of gas milage it gets I will still have to buy gas.... )
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if anyone is interested in doing this sorta thing let me know and I can give ya detailed info as the project takes shape....
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so far I have rounded up a few 55 gal metal drums, a 25gal propane tank, a small air tank,a 5 gal propane bottle, and a few metal buckets and some 3" i.d. tubing...
the carberator is so simple even I can make it.... 2 butterflys in (#2) 2"x3" nipples thredded into a "T" one is the throttle the other is the choke/air mix adjustment
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the .PDF file even has information on the size of a burner you need for diferent sized engines
My Dodge truck will need a 14" diam. burner and it needs to be close to 30" long, but that will make the burner too high so I will shorten its length.
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this looks to be a very Viable source of Fuel for me.... if I can get it working good on the O'l Dodge I may make one for the Toyota truck and forget about the Hydroxy generator for the truck and just put it on the Car for the Wife ! HAHAHAHAHAHA
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I googled "Wood gas" and found allot of info. if anyone is interested !
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Bob.....
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2009, 04:36:28 pm » |
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More reading and contemplating the parts I have on hand....
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According to the article that FEMA published, the configuration really is NOT that important
what is important is that...
1) the fire box itself be air tight,all the connecting goodies be air tight.
2) the fire tube be of correct diameter and length for the size engine used.
3) all the piping be as resistance free as possible and big enough for the job.
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Unfortunately, using the same size "Fire tube" that they call for makes the entire burner very TALL.... upwards to 7ft or more, depending on how big of a hopper I put on it!
at 14" in Diam and 32" long... that's big ! but it is for a 318-V8 and that takes allot of Woodgas to keep it running !
so rather than Risk a non-operational producer I think I will just build a step in the bed of the truck to Reach the top of the Hopper easily. <GRIN> and make the burner the proper size.
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I do think I will add a "Cyclone" filter to the system and a Radiator to help cool the gas
neither are absolutely necessary, but will aid in keeping the truck running longer!
...because here on the Ranch I expect I will be leaving the truck Idling for extended periods while I load the back with Rocks and stuff... although I will only have 1/2 of the truck bed to load junk into, at least its something !... I can always pull a trailer if need be!
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So far here is the plan.....
The "Fire Tube" will be made from a 25 gal Propane tank... I will fill the tank with water prior to grinding/cutting one end off the tank. this will set in a 55gal drum with a piece of another 55 gal drum Added to its height to give it the proper height.... its allot of work to go through but I think it will be best in the end.)
...the connecting tubes will be 3" i.d. (simply because I have that on hand, 4" would be better)
I will try to buy some flexible 3" exhaust coupling hose for the many bends needed... if its too expensive... I will just have to fabricate my own curves! <GRIN>
the Main filter will be in a metal BOX I think... not really sure yet, using asbostos rope as a gasket to make it air tight.... that or a 30~55gal metal drum.
... out of all the JUNK cars I have around here I should be able to find a good heater blower
to use as a blower for startup on the unit.... I HOPE anyway. ( this may be harder to "Scrounge up " than it sounds!HEHEHEHEHE).
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I am Contemplating Using 3" Ball valves instead of making the butterfly valves from scratch...
but they are extremely expensive...and hard to turn !....perhaps a used throttle body of a large pickup at the wrecking yard will be inexpensive LOL (dream on Bob!) there are flapper valve's for ducting that may do the trick at the hardware store that also might fill the bill.
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I'm thinking that this system would work great for Tink's stationary electric Generator !
but I dunno how much wood he has there, but even wood pellets can be cheaper than gasoline !
...and a smaller engine needs a Much smaller producer...so its easier to build and maintain!
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Bob......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2009, 11:28:14 pm » |
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TINK !
According to this documentation... for your Electrical generator (depending on its HP )
chances are it will need a 6"Di.X 16"L. fire tube and if its a small engine then maybe a funnel-down restrictor on the business end of the tube.... they say keep the size 6" even if its a SMALL gas engine simply to prevent plug-ups in the fuel feed... (sense the fuel feed is gravity fed.).... without a funnel down Restriction all it will do is make more gas than it needs....once the fire is going the engine self regulates the amount of gas it needs... so building bigger than you need hurts Nothing...it doesn't even waste Wood, because the fire burns a bit slower is all.... very neat method!
with a large hopper you could have the generator run for days if you choose !
with a bit of tinkering you could have FREE electricity instead of having to pay over $3.00 a gallon for gasoline.......ofcorse you have to come up with the wood to burn, or wood chips
but that should be the easy part... like me I amagon you have an excess of brush and that can be thrown in a chipper shredder...dried and then burned in the Producer to make Wood gas for the Electric Generator.....
...its a thought anyway !
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Bob.......
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« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 12:44:20 am by Bob »
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2009, 01:10:14 am » |
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UGH ! I just finished cutting the top off the old 25gal propane tank ! first time I ever did that to such a big explosive container ! .... it has been used for an air tank for the last 12 years , so I was fairly certain there wasn't enough gas residue to explode.... but NOT POSITIVE!
and in a situation like this if your wrong... your DEAD !...
So I managed to get one valve off the tank and filled the tank to the very top with water....
then drilled 5~6 1/8" holes side by side and then used the drill very carefully side ways to eat the metal away from between the holes.... this took about 30 minutes and I had a slot about 1" long 1/8" wide that water poured out.... I then used the reciprocating saw and cut the top off the tank.... not the straightest of cuts but good enough anyway !...
Next I'll flatten my wobbly line/cut and then cut it to length and the fire tube will be almost done except for welding it to the top of the 55 gal drum.
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a 14" diam tube is HUGE !... My Kid could squeeze inside that silly thing!
if it don't make enough Wood gas to run that Dodge nuttin will ! LOL!
and just for your info, this tanks wall thickness is about 1/8" thick... incase you were wondering how thick a propane tank's wall thickness was...(I was!) LOTS of rust on the inside of that tank too I might add ! LOL !
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Bob......
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« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 07:29:06 am by Bob »
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Manta
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 11:31:40 am » |
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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Bob
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2009, 08:01:57 am » |
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HEHEH thanks for the link Manta !
sounds like a re run of the "Rotary Wing forum" on that site ! LOL no one has anything positive to say about anything except down with you and up with me ! .... Oh well each to his own !
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I got a bit of work done on the gassifier today...not much as we had the Satellite Internet guy out today and he installed a Wild blue Satellite internet dish for us... I NOW have a fast internet for the first time in my life and I am REALLY Enjoying it ! HAHAHAHA
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I got a 14" diam hole cut in a 55gal drum and the fire tube ready to be cut to length. (slot cut so I can cut off the end with the Reciprocating saw.)
Boy I tell ya cutting that hole in the 55 gal drum was like sticking your head in a giant bell and banging it with a big hammer for 20 minutes ! .... LOL that was noisy ! I got ready to tut the fire tube to length and realized it was getting fairly late, and as loud as it was I figured it might disturb the neighbors so I'll just wait till tomorrow!
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I had decided to make a door in the 55gal drum to get to the fire grate and clean-out the ash...
but the more I think of it the harder it think it will be to make it air tight... so I'll probably just do it the way the FEMA plans call for... harder to clean out good that way... but with a shop vac it shouldn't be too bad.... and I do nave a new shop vac sooooo... do it the easy way and use pipe and pipe caps for the clean-outs !
... sense it is IMPERATIVE that the burn box be air tight... I am going to make the fire tube and fire box a one piece unit... all welded together... if I ever have to get inside the fire box I'll have to either make a door or cut the top off at that time ! but it should last a good 20 years that way......the only thing that will be removable on the fire box (55gal drum) will be the pipe Caps on the clean-out and ignition ports. ...
although I plan on purchasing a 4" cap and close nipple for the clean-out port so I should be able to get my arm inside to fiddle with the grate or grate shaker if need be.
....Bob...
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2009, 03:12:14 pm » |
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well a RE-THINK is in order... a few sites I read this morning said they didn't like the FEMA design because of the no air injection at the burn area... and FEMA said it was not "OPTIMUM" just that it would work...so I am going to add a injection ring....at the end of the fire tube.
I found an old trailer rim just the right size and its perfect for the job, all I have to do is add a ring of plate steel around the outside and drill holes and add on a pipe to outside air.
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all in all its slowly starting to take shape...
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I decided not to use the 55gal drum as the bottom because it had some daylight showing in spots from the rust !.... it looks fine on the outside but is badly rusted on the inside! so I will use the good drum for the bottom and mount the fire tube in the lid so I can take it apart and work on it if need be... which I like that idea better by far anyway !...
... I should take some pic's of the mess while its going together, I guess ....Humm
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anyway... didn't get much sleep last night so think I'll call it quits for the day and go snooze ! LOL !!!
Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2009, 10:25:49 pm » |
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ok , a quick Pic of the barrel,barrel-lid,fire tube(silver) and fire ring/air injector.
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unlike the FEMA article I will weld this not braze it !
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The 55gal barrel, hard to see (left upper corner of pic.) will be the Hopper to hold the wood fuel,the one end has a 14" hole in the center already so it will be placed on top of the lid and the top of it cut out completely and a barrel-Lid (the same as the one I already cut the hole out of and bent up tangs to weld on to the fire tube) will be used as the Hopper-Lid...(but without the big hole in it of course.).
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Bob.
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« Last Edit: September 26, 2009, 10:35:28 pm by Bob »
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2009, 04:10:53 pm » |
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Well, today I got the fire tube cut down 6" and that Ring sliced open so it will spred out and slip over the outside of the rim I'll use as a fire ring/air injector... got the 1/2" holes drilled in the rim...19 of them... and just need to weld it all up...
came home from town with a new 4.5" electric grinder ...man its a nice one ! I wore my other one out ages ago and really needed a new one ! ... those things are worth their weight in gold !
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Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 01:20:59 am » |
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well, I was courious as to weather I had enough holes in the air ring or not...(19 .5" holes)
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.5x3.14159=1.570" X 19=29.83" and the 2" pipe I am feeding it with is 2"x3.14159= 6.28"
and what that tells me is I have enough holes in the Ring but need more 2" connections to outside incoming air ! LOL.... wasn't planning on that... but I will add at least 1 more 2" pipe !...maybe 3 more hehehehehe
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I am guessing that the volume of Air the truck will suck in is HUGE at its 318c.d.i. displacement
however, I have seen pictures of even very large trucks using only 4"diam intake tubes from the producer to the engine... I am planning on a 3" tube for that purpose so if I just match the area of the 3" tube it should be good to go.... 3x3.14159=9.424"...so #2- 2"intake tubes should suffice quite well. 2x6.28=12.56"...... at the very worst, if my intake is restricted on the truck it will have trouble reaching High RPM is all....or crusing down the freeway... and believe me 60mph in that old beater is too fast ! LOL ! you hurd that truck down the road ...you don't Drive it ! LOL !... it can move a house...but it don't do it FAST !
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Changing the Fire tube to incorporate a Air intake ring changes the design from a down draft
burner to the conventional European style of producer. this doesn't make me too happy as I like the down draft design, and really did not want to have a air tight lid on the top of the wood hopper... but I can make it be a fast release spring tension affair fairly easy.
although I am going to try and still suck the gas from the bottom of the burner half ...unlike the European type... this may leave the wood Hopper free from smoke at refueling time...
I am hoping so anyway.... <GRIN>
we shall see what we shall see I guess !
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I will post plans for this when I am finished, so others can copy my design should they want to.
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Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 10:05:56 pm » |
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Had an agravateing day today... well toward this project anyway...
the only stainless steel bowl big enough to use as the grate for the burner....I know I have...but Darned if I can find it anywhere ! I managed to find its cuzzen the next smaller one but its just a bit too small to use.....so I guess I gott'a go buy one!
went up to use the tractor this morning and the gas tank is bone dry...and I parked it with 3/4 tank of gas ! I keep loosing gas out'a that thing constantly and I can NOT find a leak and I turn the gas off via a valve under the tank after each use.... Can't figure that one out!
....I am considering using the TRACTOR as the Wood Gas burner now....its probably more practical as its useage would never get far from home and it isn't used all that much, but when its used it is used really hard.... the problem is the lack of HP woodgas provides at 25% less hp it might render the tractor practically useless...and I can't have that !
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I worked most of the morning on a grate using the top portion of the propane tank that I cut off the other day... got it all cleaned up and ready to drill a thousand 1/2" holes in it and took a break, while I was recuperating in front of the computer I read that an Aussie traveled all over Australia on wood gas,... he tried a normal Metal grate and it simply fell apart in short order, he said stainless steel is the only viable material because of the high temperatures. So rather than go through his learning experience, I think I will just LEARN from his experience and use stainless steel !
so ... I set the propane top aside and gave up on the producer for the day !
I have a bunch of things stacked out there ready to weld up, but my welder uses My Kids electrical plug in and I hesitate to "UNPLUG" her ! especially when its hot ! ...so it waits for a good opportunity LOL !
I did round up a few more tanks and containers today...but that's about the extent of my success
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According to what I read today, getting fairly good Mileage from the wood supply is not all that uncommon... 1000 kilometers on one hopper full is rare but most load ups are fairly close to that.... so I figure 1~2hrs at max. per load of wood.... making the tractor the best candidate once again, for the Ginnie pig ! LOL...it would also cure my gas leak ! HAHAHA
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Bob.
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2009, 02:08:08 pm » |
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I took the wife to breakfast out this morning and found a stainless steel bowl thats close enough to work in size... got home drilled it with a 1/2" drill a bunch of times and got it looking like a Holey Bowl !HEHEHEH so it should make a real good grate for the fire box ...
I cut some old tire chain scraps into 4 link long segments (4 of them to attach the S.S.bowl on with) and got that ready to weld on...
in the process I smelt smoke.... leaf smoke! so I started looking around where I had been grinding.... saw nothing but I knew I got a whiff of it and a flicker of flame caught my eye ON TOP the work bench ! ... by the time I got the garden hose over there it was only about the size of a dinner plate and I doused it good.... but that lets you know how dry it is here... when you can start a fire with a grinder its very VERY Dry !
.... I need to get over to the spring today and put on the flex couplings and get the leak stopped when I'm pumping water...its not real bad but it is wasting water!
hopefully this evening I'll get some welding done on the Woodgas Generator.... shouldn't take me too long to use up ALL my welding rod anyway ! LOL ! (only got about a pound left!)
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Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2009, 04:16:17 pm » |
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Ok... I have the Reducer on and welded to the fire tube, the fire tube shortened AGAIN ( dunno if thats good or bad!) and welded to the 55 gal drum lid, and the stainless steel bowl preferated with a bunch of 1/2" holes and attached to the bottom of the burner...
AND...today I welded up the Cyclone air filter... its made from a 10gal water heater tank.
the bottom is cut out and many slices up the length of the tank were cut into the tank, about 3" appart... and then bent inward and all welded to create a taper to a hold about 6" in diam
which will be the attachment point of the ash catcher/bucket...
this method took a bunch of welding but it does work, even if it looks like hell ! LOL
I welded on the 3" pipe pieces to make the cyclone effect in the tank and other than the bucket top the cyclone filter is ready to be used !
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Its funny... I just started on this a few weeks back and I'm already about 1/2 ~3/4 done!
as its coming along quite nicely !
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I still need a 4" threaded nipple and pipe cap for it and a 2" nipple and pipe cap....
the 4" will be for ash clean-out and the 2" for a "Light-the-fire-Hole!" both of these nipples will have to be welded to the 55 gal drum, and it will be difficult to weld to that thin stuff at best... but I bot a fresh batch of 3/32" 6011 welding rod so it shouldn't be too bad
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and I figured out that the reducer on the fire tube will work fine as long as I restrict some of the air that it can obtain.... that way it will have to draw through the wood and upper portion of the wood hopper to get the air it needs... this will keep the Producer as a "Down draft Producer" with the advantages of a hotter fire section where the fire ring is and extra air is added from the outside... it should be far superior to either the "Imbert Producer" or the FEMA version.... time will tell I guess !
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after the Cyclone filter is finished , I need to make a fine filter... which I have decided on a Water filter... or at least I'll try and see if my idea works... the wood gas peculating up through a berrol of water should clean and cool the gas very well....
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I realize allot of the Wood burning units go to great lengths to keep the Water out of the gas but for the life of me I can't understand why ! a bit of water vapor in the gas is a good thing and will help cool the gas even further as it travels to the hot engine where it is vaporized completely..... I guess I will see how it works LOL !
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Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2009, 09:51:13 pm » |
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Hardware stores .... Phittttt !
I went to 2 of the big chain hardware stores...Lowes and Home depot...and neither one cary large diam steel pipe now.... PVC yes but not steel ! ...
I guess I'll let my "Fingers do the walking" through the yellow pages and see if I can hunt up some large pipe ! hehehehehe
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I got the end of the Cyclone filter welded on today,and the strip of steel as a joint lip welded on... still needs some work but with a high temp hose on the lip of the tank top I used as a bucket top it should seal up air tight if not I'll silicone the heck out of it and that will seal it up!
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I got a hunk of metal in me right eye yesterday and I can't seam to get it out... looks like I may have to go to the doctor...what fun! I was grinding without my safty glasses on and sure enough got a piece in me eye.... thats when I remembered the safty glasses LOL ! DUH !
...don't ya feel like an idiot when ya do that ? LOL ! good greef!
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anyway... didn't do much on the Wood Gasser today ... hehehehe
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Bob....
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2009, 04:10:37 pm » |
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Welp... I got the Cyclone filter done... all I need for it is paint and High temp silicone to seal up the lid on the bucket !.
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I am thinking about making a ash door for the burner instead of using a small 4" pipe and cap
simply because the door would give me more room to clean out the fire box better.
... the problem is making the door completely air tight... but I have an air-tight door on my wood/pellet stove I made, and all that takes is a close fitting door and asbostos rope glued on to the mating surface and a good sturdy latch....
what worries me about the idea is the thin 55gal drum metal I have 1/4" plate on the wood stove and in some places 1/2" plate so making it solid is no problem...the thin metal on the berrol will buckel and flex too much I think so I will have to sandwitch the thin drum metal between 1/4" plate to make it solid and then attach the door to the 1/4" plate... allot of work but by far better than having to try and clean out ash from a small opening...been there done that too many times!...heck its messy with a big opening ! LOL !
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Bob...
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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