My Pet Project

[Bob]

Well, my chainsaw pre rotator engine is shot.... so much rust around the rings that I can't free it up ... at least without a complete tear down... so using that engine for the tail rotor is out ...at least for now. perhaps some rainy day in the future I'll tear it down.
...
  The Masquieto uses 2" wide toothed belts for the drive on the rotor... that may very well be a good idea. instead of chain and sprockets.... but I have chain and sprockets and will most likely use them.
...
still.... keeping the weight extremely LOW is going to be the breaking point.... so I may have to eliminate All steel components and go aluminum ONLY.... meaning more expense.
...
but I honestly think I can make the Mini copter with steel parts and still be light enough to fly on only 40hp..... its a major challenge ....to say the least... any may indeed take me a few years to complete!
...hehehehe
Bob......

[Manta]

how are you going to alter the pitch of the rotor blades ?  Something you don't need to worry about with a gyro. Also the collective ?

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

I'm Not going to change the pitch at all... except for static ground adjustment...
the idea is to spin it like a prop and if I need more lift just increase throttle...
so it will be allot like the G1 helicopter.... except a souped up version able to leave ground effect and with a gyro style tilting rotor head for directional control
...
 I plan on starting out with 8 degrees pitch on the rotor blades and see if I can obtain lift with that.
if so I won't change it from there on....  not if I can help it , because I still want to have the Auto-rotation effect in case the engine dies.  I can go as steep as 12 degrees I believe and still have Auto-rotation... any steeper and I don't think they'll keep spinning... its possible up to 15degrees is still auto-rotation-able... but I don't know that for a fact.
...
there will be no collective... but a big clutch lever in its place on the left side of the seat, this will push out the engine to engage the v-belts on the main drive shaft.
the right side of the seat will be the throttle...
...
 I've devised a nifty clutch arrangement that will do the trick of engaging and disengaging the power
of the 40hp Rotex.... but I've discovered that all my material I was going to use for the engine mount is far too weak for the task... so I have to wait till I can get more aluminum to start forming the engine mount...
the engine mount has a double task one of holding the engine and then holding the drive shaft that turns the rotor... so it must be very strong and light weight.
...
so the idea is a simple one... throttle up to raise, throttle down to descend... joy-stick for directional control and rudder peddles for yaw/turning...
 I am leaving on the wheels of the gyro... because it makes it easy to roll around and forward movement will help stabilize the craft in the learning stage.
I may remove the wheels and replace them with blow up pontoons later on for landing on the lake! if it ever gets that far ! LOL  ( the lake is about 5~7 miles away !)
...
Bob....

[Bob]

I Just took off the old seat and gas tank from the gyro... man what a difference that makes !
I grabbed the new seat and set it on it and by golly it looks purd darn good on there!
I am going to remove the front wheel  and the splice I put in there to lengthen out the botton frame
this will probably give me a good 50 lbs I'll just put a skid on the front that is a bit short so when the craft begins to lift the skid will come off the ground first....
 I won't be able to roll into flight but I doubt I will want to anyway.... I'll also remove the disk brakes I made and the disks for both back wheels giving me another 10lbs at least...
right now I can lift the whole thing off the ground fairly easy so I know its under 200 lbs <GRIN>
I want to keep my dash board on there, but I may take it off for now... and put it on later.
...
looking the thing over I can see that the rotor head movement is going to have to be changed a great deal.... I only want about 4 degrees tilt in all directions... maybe less I don't know yet.
but it now goes to Level in the forward position and back about 8 degrees.(guessing)
I think I'll remove the mast so I can work on the top of it easier and put on the new mast when I get the tubes... with it off I can strip it allot easier.
....
this afternoon I have to run to town and get the new radiator for the wife's car... and put it in so she can drive it tonight to work... she don't like driving my truck.... dunno why... I like it better than the car ! LOL ! that clutch gives her fits I guess ! LOL !
...
so looks like I have a full day ahead of me... I better get after it !
...
Bob.....


 

[Bob]

Well, I got the wife's car going again, good as new... and got a chance to take the tail feathers off the tail boom a bit ago...
 I think I'll use it for the MAST sense its 2 pieces of 1"x3"alum box tube... but it is fairly short
so I dunno yet.
  its actually too hot to go out there and putter on the Helo so I'm hiding from the heat in the house!
....
Bob......

[Bob]

I figured I'd post a few pics of the gyro-Helo conversion...that is under way at the moment.
I have no doubt that this project will be a LONG one.
...
Tearing the Gyro apart was Hard as I put so very many hours into it and finally had it about where I wanted it... but it still needed a "Runway" to take off... and I really don't have that...so I decided to convert it to a Helicopter instead... I think I'd rather have a vertical take off machine anyway.. so why the heck not ! HAHAHAHAHHA!
...
as you can see it Resembles a G1 in frame design and function... except that the rotor head will be tilt-able by 4 to 6 degrees in all directions.
... My biggest concern is  WEIGHT... I have to keep the weight as LOW as I possibly can.
...
Bob...

[WyndFryst]

I wish I could provide input, I know almost nothing about helicopters aside from the fact that they're loud and the military uses them.

[Bob]

HAHA No problem Ken I'll figure it out ...have no fear... that's the fun part after all !
...
Now if I was Rich I'd just go out and buy all I need and have it delivered to my doorstep and have it built in a week or two.... but as it is its going to be a long project ! HAHAHAHA
but I'm in no real hurry anyway ! HAHAHA!
....
Bob....

[geezer]

   Sure not very much between you and the promise land! Better keep the preacher on your side.
     glenn

[Bob]

HAHAHA ! Good Point !
...
Bob....

[Manta]

Bob,

Should the tail rotor motor fail, will it be possible to get into auto-rotation or will you spin straight down ?

Got to be honest here and say I think you would have been better just getting the old gyro working as it was intended.  If I remember correctly you didn't get off the ground on your first attempt.  This project looks very ambitious.
Wouldn't want  to have future chats via a medium.

Dave
(Manta)

[janmarsh]

Always remember :  Pull the stick towards you, the houses get smaller.  Push the stick away from you, the house get bigger & bigger....HaHa   

You remind me of Peter O'Toole in the film Murphy's War.......  Crazy.

[Bob]

LOL !
 Yes Manta it "Should almost certainly Auto rotate"...
as far as I am concerned that is a pre requiset for this copter.
the tail rotor will be powered by the vertical drive shaft that powers the Main rotor...
this means if the engine stops so does the tail rotor... however the Main rotor will keep on turning
due to auto rotation and a sprag clutch under the rotor on the sprocket... so the rotor can spin without turning anything else in the drive train...failing that, (lack of a Sprag clutch) I do have a clutch to disengage the engine, but the entire drive trail ill spin and it may be too much for Auto rotation...so I am planning on a sprag clutch !

...
its too late to go back to the gyro Now Manta.... <GRIN>
and Yes I did...the very first time I took the gyro Out I got it about 1ft off the ground for about 8 to 12 feet... that was enough to tell me it needed to be Much MUCH stronger, it was a flying lawn chair and so far from being SAFE that it scared the heck out of me ! we went to a lower altitude dirt strip that day.... shortly there after it was fenced off and I couldn't get in. Grrrr!
so then I had to use the High altitude air port and that was when all the problems started.
....
 I really don't think flying this thing will be a problem for me...
one I am at even lower altitude now.... (1200ASL) and have room to practice ...ALL DAY if I want to!
that makes a big difference ! instead of loading it up and traveling to the landing strip.
... in Reality I think I have a BETTER chance of flying with this thing, than I ever did with the gyro.
....And Yes... I am sure I can fly it.... trying not to damage it is a bit harder however!
LOL
....
Bob.....

[Manta]

Bob,

It was this line that threw me..

....I can Power the tail rotor by my old Power-take off Pre rotator setup... with its 90 degree gear box it should do great. but I'ed like ANOTHER 90 deg gear box to drive the prop from that drive line...

I got the impression that you were going to use a separate small pre-rotor engine to power the tail rotor. I had visions of this motor stopping and you being spun around by the main rotor reaction.  Guess I misread it.

I'm all in favour of people being able to do slightly risky things if they feel they are confident.  In the UK you would be in very deep trouble indeed if you flew your own gyro around without all the right paperwork and expensive training.  I can't remember if you need to have a fixed wing license for at least VFR first.  Mind you,  you can also get a hefty fine for riding a bicycle without lights.

I would suggest two things before you you take to the air.

1) That you set up as a gyro and fit the gyro to a pivot tower so you can practice the movements without leaving the ground; you will need a strong breeze for this.

2) that you practice as a tethered kite on the end of, say,  500 foot of line.

That way you should at least have the feel of the beast before you move into the more difficult world of 'copters.


Geezer,

Hey,  good to see you back.  What ya doing these days ?

Dave
(Manta)     

[Bob]

Hay Manta !
well I was considering doing that for a while, using a small motor and prop for anti torque control
but I have decided against it in favor for the conventional powered tail rotor.
...
 I had the tail rotor apart a bit ago and tried to get it freed up a bit more and wound up making it worse ! ...go figure! so I will have to ream out the innards of the sliding collar to make it loose enough to move easy!
...
it spins when the wind blows and looks rather neet .... makes me want to get it going!
...I am setting up the tail rotor to be flat in one direction and very steep pitch in the other
sense I know the torque will be pulling toward the flattened direction I doubt I will ever need reverse thrust on the tail rotor... and that should give me a finer adjustment for keeping it pointed in the right direction....(that by the way does look to be quite difficult!)
....
I took in a truck bed full of aluminum cans this morning and got $1.74 a pound for them and came away with $105.88.... so it did pay for the trouble at least.!
.... they didn't have any scrap aluminum down there to amount to anything just a few scrap pieces I could have used for odd stuff... but not what I wanted...so I came home without it.
I'll probably order a few pieces from "Onlinemetals.com" I have dealt with them before and had no problem so I'll probably do that rather than go to the Aluminum shop in town... last time I was there they really gouged me big time !
...
progress has been very slow lately on the chopper.... lack of metal to make the engine mount and the super hot temperatures out there in the sun... make me want to stay inside under the swamp cooler !
LOL
...
Bob......