My Pet Project

[Bob]

among my many other projects there is one that is very dear to my hart My Gyro copter !
My Dad bought it for me about 8 yrs ago in a Pile of parts...with a manual... it was a Bumble Bee  if I remember correctly to start out with, but now no longer resembles one at all.
...
 its a Ultralight flying machine that has a rotor over head instead of wings...
and you take off and land like a airplane does...not like a helicopter.
...
I spent the better part of 5 years on it constantly improveing it and practicing How to fly it.
I got it off the ground in Hops many times but quickly ran into a steering control problem that gave me
no end of truble for about 3 years...
 the last time I had it out I was having truble getting it to go stright as well as fast enough !
the problem was my Altitude 5000ft ASL makes the 440 Rotex work very hard for every mph it gets, couple that with inexperience and you have a desaster waiting to happen !....
I got it to bottom out at speed doing about 20~25mph... going stright down the old runway
and I realised what the problem was , I had the stick back too far.. so I eased the stick forward and
my speed shot up and the gyro all of a sudden lept into the air... I was supprized and not quite ready for that because I had no indication before that it wanted to fly at all.. then all of a sudden it hops off the ground ! 
  I admit I froze for a split second and that is all it took by the time I corrected for the right hand roll it was too late and I hit the runway on my side as the rotors sounded like hand gernades going off
as the ground devowered them in large bites ! I slid down the runway and off the side on the hard exposed rocks that made up the side of the runway ... so when I put my arm out to shield my head and face my arm slid on the dirt and packed sharp rocks, cutting the heck out of my right forarm.
when I came to rest the dust was so thick I couldn't see anything, but parts of the gyro but pieces of the rotor blades were raining down all over the place ! as well as pieces of the prop...
I un did my 3 point harniss and fell a few inches to the ground and stood up and looked around "SHIT" was all I said ! ... my gyro was seriously hurt I just knew it ! ...I grabbed the mast and with a mighty heave flopped the gyro back on her wheels.... and I started assessing the dammage....
rotor...obviously kapoot as there were pieces of it all over the runway...
Prop was a might bit shorter than it used to be and not looking very well at all.... the pre rotor drive line was busted and the Push pull-tube to the rudder was almost cut in half by a piece of the prop.... but that was ALL !!!! the gyro was intact.... no major damage it would fly again !
so I made a new 3 bladed prop and a new rotor and when I get the time I'll get it all going again and this time not be cought by supprize !
I am Fortunate that My Dad was out there with me at the time as he took a Picture ( unknown to him at the time) that captures the craft as she started to Roll to the right.
...
I am so very thankful that the rotor didn't hit my father... or even a piece of it, the good lord is merciful in many ways some times and this was definitely one of those times... I walked away but learned allot from the experience ! ...
with my new Chainsaw Pre rotator obtaining the speed I had to before will not be needed... a brisk walk should do it... and then the craft will be air borne.... At the Ranch here there is enough room (or WILL BE!) for me to take off and land in the O'l gyro... I've named her "Persistence" as that is what it takes to fly if your Dirt Poor !
...
Here's the Pic.
 

[Bob]

You Know.... many things could be said for that... includeing but not limited to " you get what you deserve, trying to fly without proper training!" simply because I hurd enough of that on "Rotory wing forum"
but my reply was alwayse  if I could afford the $150.00an hr lessons in portland Or. ( yes thats the closest place that does any gyro training)
and the money to get there, as well as the motel fees and food for the Minimum of 3 days needed to do the training... I would have done it a long time ago !  I figure the Write brothers as well as the early boys with Gyros learned how to fly them without lessons, so ...so can I...
and I have a very good proven guide in the Benson flight manual to guide me
... but the rebuttal alwayse came back as You can't afford not to take lessons.... yet I can't afford TO take the lessons... and one fella was brash enough to say then you shouldn't even attempt to fly then !
...
it was attitudes like that that Ruined "Rotary Wing Forum" for me. I learned allot from the knowledgeable fellas there, but most are so bloody rich that they have no idea what it is like to be on the lower side of Low income... yet they insist that many of them are Poor at $50k income a year.... and they probably indeed are.
...
I believe that Powered flight can be obtained by anyone that has the Gutts to give it their all... it can be done cheeply and is totally dependant on how resorcefull you the individual are!...
  My Gyro Initially cost us $800.00... and as I said it was a pile of pieces. some were missing some were not, most of the important things were there... the engine (a Rotex 447) the frame pieces, the rotor although busted ( I did repair it) and the seat and one wheel.
... and the all important manual.
to this day I still have a darn good memory about the parts on that gyro because I studied the manual so well. I learned the funtion of each piece
and thought of ways to improve it, however I did not change it untill after the first initial flight, where I got it a foot off the ground for about 30 feet and landed again....and it was not my only flight like that
but in all honnesty when it was finally assembled just like the manual said I was Apalled at it... it was a flying lawn chair...rickity and it did NOT inspire confidence that it was not going to break in flight.
so I changed it.... Many times over the years and today it hardly resembles what it used to be at all.
...I learned what was both good and bad for a gyro and tried to apply that knowledge to keep me safe.  in so doing the gyro gained weight
ever so slightly and the added weight and trying to fly it at a high altitude air strip,  made for a very fast take off speed.
....
 I have by no means given up on my dream of flying my gyro, and I will do it without formal instructions...as I wouldn't take them now even if I had the money..... I've hurd their speal over and over... and I have no doubt I could fly a regular gyro at a airport below 1000'ASL with no problem, be it a HTL or CLT design.... so to me it would be a waste of money Now..... but it has taken me close to 5 or 6 years to get to this point and one crash to say that !....( and who knows my next attempt may be my last too ! )
...
 I do however recommend that anyone trying to fly a home brew gyro , for goodness sake get FORMAL instructions if you can afford it! if you can't then don't get in a hurry... start slow and work up to hops and from hops to longer hops.... learn the feel of the craft before you leave the ground .... and believe me that is not as easy as it sounds !
...it takes many many Runs down the air strip  believe me
because these things like to tip over... and when it does you have to go back to square one on your training and on the build !
....
to give you an idea  I will post the before and after pictures of the mods I have done....
...
Bob......
 (the first pic is Sept, 2003... the second Aug, 2007) and I realy havn't touched it sense then as the "MOVE" has gotten in the way ...big time!

[Manta]

Bob,

You say you 'repaired' the rotor.  What did you actually do to it ?

Manta

[Bob]

Hi manta !
I repaired that Rotor 3 times sense the alumimum spar on the leading edge was undamaged... I simply fiberglassed it and re ballanced it and had to do the entire setup for the rotors each time... but it worked and worked well.
the last crash however ended the repair sequience because the alumimum spar was in about 5ft sections all bent and twisted beyond repair.
so I made new blades out of laminated flooring sheets (no voids)
and although they are a bit heavier than the original blades they arn't by that much, and I made a 4ft hub bar to increase the Rotor diamator to 24ft
which realy was the best thing I've done for the gyro ! it made a big diference on its ability to get off the ground at a slower speed !
....
the original rotor blades were foam filled, so I used sprey foam and filled in the gaps in the blade where the old foam was missing and it worked out very well, however  fiberglass reson eats that foam and it was dificult at best to get it to accept the reson... once the blades were repaired the first time  the gyro tipped over on its side and broke them again
sense the rotor wasn't at flight speed it didn't destroy them... so I repaired them again with fiberglass in the same manor.
...(that was when I had the gyro configured as a tail dragger... that didn't work at all.... !)
 hehehehe
...
Bob......

[Manta]

Bob,

...so I used sprey foam and filled in the gaps in the blade where the old foam was missing and it worked out very well, however  fiberglass reson eats that foam and it was dificult at best to get it to accept the reson...

 

You sure like to live dangerously.

I used to have a set of plans for a Bensen Gyro.  And I do remember that they suggested using it as a tethered glider to gain the experience. All you need is a windy area and a long rope.Over here they (the CAA) would have you thrown in jail is you were caught flying without a license. Funny thing is I would be able to go up to,  say,  a thousand foot,  on the tether and be legal.  But if I disconnected it and glided down I would be in deep doodoo.

[Bob]

Well, I don't view many things Dangerous that other people do... I ride a motorcycle allot...and think nothing of the "Danger".... the only difference is that if my Rotor fails in flight its going to be EXTREAMILY hard on my body.... <GRIN> where if my motorcycle sheds a tire at 70mph and gets away from me its going to be hard on my body....<GRIN>
....
when I build something that has the potential to end my life I am extreamily careful on doing the job correctly.... So No I really don't like to "LIVE Dangerously" I just accept the risks as part of the package... and don't think that much about it...
 I'ed rather Die by my own creation than try and fly a "glorified Flying lawn chair" that is"Safe" by other peoples ideas... I feel my machine is far safer than any store bought ultralight gyro.
....
the 3 bladded prop on my gyro is a work of art even if I do say so myself... I made it from scratch as well....and I have all the confidence in it in the world... I tested it by setting the pitch to zero pitch and reving the engine to redline and holding it there for 30 seconds.... I know it will hold up to the riggers of normal flight RPM as it will never get anywhere near that fast again!
the rotor I did the same thing set pitch to zero and spun it with the pre rotator to way above flight speed.... and when I mount these new Rotor blades on the rotor hub bar I will do the same thing again.... if its going to break it will be then not when its loping along in flight at 400rpm max
....my rotor Tach. told me the repaired rotorblades reached 1000rpm.... I doubt store bought rotor blades will be guarenteed to reach that speed HEHEHEHE!
....
but rest asured I am very carefull when I have a 24ft rotor wherling around over my head and a 3 bladed meat cleaver roaring behind me .... it is a bit unnerving to say the least ! you don't make mistakes !
....
Bob.......

[Bob]

Today I aired up the tires on the o'l gyro and drug it down to the house where I can tinker with it.
the engine hasn't ran in at least a year and needs to be ran so that is in the works...
 sense I am seriously considering changing my gyro into a helicopter I thought I'd have a better chance of getting something done on it if it was in my work area!
 It was actually good to be around the O'l girl... like visiting an old friend <grin>
I have put much time and effort into that thing and loved every minute of it,there's about 5 years of work setting there and thousands of hours... still if I ever get to fly it , it will all be worth it
...
Bob.

[Manta]

Bob,

You say 'NEW' rotor blades.  Does this mean that you have junked the repaired old ones ?

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

Hi Dave ! Yes I made new ones to replace the old repaired blades...because after the crash they were in about 1000 pieces all scattered about !
  My new blades are the ones I made a while back... out of wood and fiberglass.
(I didn't pay over $2500.00 for them... I made them for about $250.00 +~-  )
I haven't actually finished the blades because they haven't been completely balanced and spun up
and I consider that part of making them. but they are ready for that bit now.
 they are of the Flat bottom air foil shape top of most Gyro blades ( H8 or something like that....)
...
Bob...

[Bob]

I got the gyro engine running this evening, had to pull the plugs and clean them, but it fired up easily after that and ran on both cylinders ok.
... I noticed a crack in one of the blades of my home made adjustable pitch 3 bladed prop.
seams the weather is taking its toll on the o'l girl. 
I ran the prop anyway but never got to top RPM and its still in one piece so I guess its good enough to repair the crack in the outside resin....
 However sense I will probably not use that prop again I doubt I'll bother.
I got looking at the gyro with the eye of a Helicopter in mind and think I can do it fairly easy with minimal modification...
the hardest part will be turning the engine vertical, all new engine mounting will have to be made to do that... and at the right distance so the COG is correct.
I am also thinking about removing the 4ft hub bar and putting the 1ft hub bar back in there instead...
not thinking real seriously about doing that but I might for a smaller diamator rotor.
I will literally cut off the tail and frame that goes to it. lower the engine and put 2# 1"x2" Box alum tubes 1/8" wall thickness 8' to 10' long just above the engine straight back and mount a tail rotor on it at the end. the drive to the rotor is almost already there sense I made my chainsaw pre-rotator so well.... it has a ring gear under the rotor and a starter Pinion gear to turn it
the drive shaft will need to be beefed up and that goes for the slip joint too. I will probably use a steering column set of U-Joints for the new drive line to power the rotor...
Powering that drive line will more than likely be 2 v-belts  at a 4:1 ratio the top drive on the rotor is a 12:1 if I remember correctly....
I haven't ran the numbers yet and really don't know the RPM needed to get the thing off the ground so the gear reduction is sort of UP in the air till I get some idea. more research is needed in that.
...I can Power the tail rotor by my old Power-take off Pre rotator setup... with its 90 degree gear box it should do great. but I'ed like ANOTHER 90 deg gear box to drive the prop from that drive line... its just a more sanitary setup.
... other than that I may have to change the cheek plates to get the COG perfect. hook the foot pedals to the pitch control of the rear tail rotor and set the pitch of the rotor blades to about 8degrees and give it a try and see if it tries to leave the ground!
... I have about 6 months of tinkering ahead of me at least ! HAHAHAHAHA
.....
Bob.......

[Bob]

Well, I'm committed now !
I cut off the attachment point for the rear tail boom for the gyro tail....
the tail rotor boom will go above the engine so it has to be in a different place than the tail boom on the gyro.
 I got the Engine off and engine mount off and moved around to where I will re attach it (with stronger aluminum angle than was on it!)
 been mostly eye-balling it to see where stuff SHOULD go... I spend allot of time just standing out there Looking at the silly thing, trying to get an idea on how to do this the easiest way ! LOL
...
I've decided to replace the Mast with a much stronger version so the torque of the engine doesn't twist the mast into a pretzel!
... I'll more than likely pull off the seat and gas-tank too...as I have a boat plastic seat that is a good 10 pounds lighter ! the gas tanks will probably be 2# 2.5 gal plastic gas cans , one on each side behind the seat.
...
 I MAY use a small 2 cycle engine to drive a prop for the tail rotor instead of using the engine for that... and use throttle control on the little motor for turning... haven't decided on that yet though.
...
other than that not much going on around here ! heheheheheheh
...
Bob......

[Manta]

Bob,

Take care man.  If a weld fails on a car you (hopefully) just slide to a halt.  If it fails on a gyro there is no hope and your future will be measured in seconds.
On a more cheerful theme. I've spent most of the day polishing up my panel beating dollys and hammers. It's years since I used them,  and much to my shame,  they have aquired some rust.  I intend to get my old BMW back on the road.  Hopefully with a Peugeot 1.9 XUD engine fitted so that I can run it on bio Diesel.  The original engine sloped over to the right hand side as does the XUD.  So I should be able to get it to fit.
Fuel (Diesel) is holding steady at £1.15 per litre.  My friends in Greece tell me that their petrol has gone up from E1.0 to E1.6 per litre. That's a 60% hike.  Just wait until Pres Obama sees that idea.  What are you paying at the moment ?

Anyway,  remember, if it don't look right it probably wont fly right.

I'm off down to start on tonight's chilli. Catch you later.

Dave(Manta)

Edited 3 August.  wrong price.  It's still bad though.

 

[Bob]

Ouch ! its $3.00 a gallon here now and has been steadily climbing all summer...
 definitely  way past time to get the truck running on 100% Hydroxy gas !
...
 Looks like I have to Order another Radiator for the wife's car.... woopie I hate working on that thing there is no room to do anything! HAHAHAHAHHA!
...
Yah I am aware of the risks on the build, one part failure can be all it takes to end your life!
...
Bob....

[Manta]

Guess that makes our fuel about $6.5 per US gallon.  If you can make a reliable hydroxy unit that cuts fuel consumption by even half then you will ensure your place in the hall of fame. Maybe even buy a new Bell Jetranger and save yourself some hassle.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

I hear that Manta !
  You know, if 20amps will get you 2 Liters a minute, then 200amps can get you 20 liters a minute.
with 20liters a minute I am sure my little R22 toyota pickup will run on that...and not need anything else.... except oil in the crankcase!
... but its such a hassel....  I'ed need 10 single cell units to obtain that kind of output and a very big altenator to handle it all.... but its got to be worth it... geez look at the price of gas!
....
 Manta... surely you can see that stragity... its not flawed... and You could do it yourself and save 3 times what I would save here.
 .....
 I have an idea for a cell, a big one that may or may not do the trick I dunno... but it has to do with the large fender washers on a threaded rod....each washer is separated by a Nut and their all grounded to the threaded rod.... any fool can make that.... nothing special about it at all... its just a bunch of washers on a bolt!.... but 10 of these bolts and washers hung from a piece of Plexiglas in a Aquarium type box.... giving a huge amount of surface area to the plates....
10 more of these connected to the other lead and you have a big hydroxy gas producer if my theory holds true... I don't think plate spacing will matter in this case...it might because the high concentration of KOH will negate the spacing to a certain extent, couple that with high amps and the cell should produce a great deal of gas because it has the surface area needed....
it probably won't be at the 10:1 efficiency as the small Randy cell... but even a 15:1 wouldn't be bad in this case....because its very easy to make.
the idea is to just get enough plate surface area in the electrolyte to be able to produce the needed amount of Hydroxy gas and then pour on the amps till you get the amount of gas you need....
.... sort of going around the bush in a different direction !
....
we Know what it takes now to make an efficient cell....but high amounts of gas is in the relm of what some others have done ....not us.... its time we changed that  because we need to run 100% hydroxy gas before they outlaw it and call us all nuts! (and believe me the gas companies will push for that!)
...
So what if it takes 500amps or even a thousand amps to power a big Caddy.... who cares if you can drive it for free ?
...
we can either do it ourselves while we still can, or wait and the government will stop us because the government is ran by big business ... they pull the strings.... I truly expect some Misguided senator to try and pass a law shortly to stop all fuel related experiments by the private individual.... if they haven't already.... they already have it to where you can't modify your car and get it re-licensed again!  but that's not enough.... some people are falling through the cracks.... and they'll want jail time for those  bad people!....
...
You should do it Manta... $6.50 a gallon isn't even funny ! make your cars run on Hydroxy gas ! not just a supplement...go for broke and make it 100%.... 
...
no REALLY !
hehehehe
Bob...

[Bob]

Well, my chainsaw pre rotator engine is shot.... so much rust around the rings that I can't free it up ... at least without a complete tear down... so using that engine for the tail rotor is out ...at least for now. perhaps some rainy day in the future I'll tear it down.
...
  The Masquieto uses 2" wide toothed belts for the drive on the rotor... that may very well be a good idea. instead of chain and sprockets.... but I have chain and sprockets and will most likely use them.
...
still.... keeping the weight extremely LOW is going to be the breaking point.... so I may have to eliminate All steel components and go aluminum ONLY.... meaning more expense.
...
but I honestly think I can make the Mini copter with steel parts and still be light enough to fly on only 40hp..... its a major challenge ....to say the least... any may indeed take me a few years to complete!
...hehehehe
Bob......

[Manta]

how are you going to alter the pitch of the rotor blades ?  Something you don't need to worry about with a gyro. Also the collective ?

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

I'm Not going to change the pitch at all... except for static ground adjustment...
the idea is to spin it like a prop and if I need more lift just increase throttle...
so it will be allot like the G1 helicopter.... except a souped up version able to leave ground effect and with a gyro style tilting rotor head for directional control
...
 I plan on starting out with 8 degrees pitch on the rotor blades and see if I can obtain lift with that.
if so I won't change it from there on....  not if I can help it , because I still want to have the Auto-rotation effect in case the engine dies.  I can go as steep as 12 degrees I believe and still have Auto-rotation... any steeper and I don't think they'll keep spinning... its possible up to 15degrees is still auto-rotation-able... but I don't know that for a fact.
...
there will be no collective... but a big clutch lever in its place on the left side of the seat, this will push out the engine to engage the v-belts on the main drive shaft.
the right side of the seat will be the throttle...
...
 I've devised a nifty clutch arrangement that will do the trick of engaging and disengaging the power
of the 40hp Rotex.... but I've discovered that all my material I was going to use for the engine mount is far too weak for the task... so I have to wait till I can get more aluminum to start forming the engine mount...
the engine mount has a double task one of holding the engine and then holding the drive shaft that turns the rotor... so it must be very strong and light weight.
...
so the idea is a simple one... throttle up to raise, throttle down to descend... joy-stick for directional control and rudder peddles for yaw/turning...
 I am leaving on the wheels of the gyro... because it makes it easy to roll around and forward movement will help stabilize the craft in the learning stage.
I may remove the wheels and replace them with blow up pontoons later on for landing on the lake! if it ever gets that far ! LOL  ( the lake is about 5~7 miles away !)
...
Bob....

[Bob]

I Just took off the old seat and gas tank from the gyro... man what a difference that makes !
I grabbed the new seat and set it on it and by golly it looks purd darn good on there!
I am going to remove the front wheel  and the splice I put in there to lengthen out the botton frame
this will probably give me a good 50 lbs I'll just put a skid on the front that is a bit short so when the craft begins to lift the skid will come off the ground first....
 I won't be able to roll into flight but I doubt I will want to anyway.... I'll also remove the disk brakes I made and the disks for both back wheels giving me another 10lbs at least...
right now I can lift the whole thing off the ground fairly easy so I know its under 200 lbs <GRIN>
I want to keep my dash board on there, but I may take it off for now... and put it on later.
...
looking the thing over I can see that the rotor head movement is going to have to be changed a great deal.... I only want about 4 degrees tilt in all directions... maybe less I don't know yet.
but it now goes to Level in the forward position and back about 8 degrees.(guessing)
I think I'll remove the mast so I can work on the top of it easier and put on the new mast when I get the tubes... with it off I can strip it allot easier.
....
this afternoon I have to run to town and get the new radiator for the wife's car... and put it in so she can drive it tonight to work... she don't like driving my truck.... dunno why... I like it better than the car ! LOL ! that clutch gives her fits I guess ! LOL !
...
so looks like I have a full day ahead of me... I better get after it !
...
Bob.....


 

[Bob]

Well, I got the wife's car going again, good as new... and got a chance to take the tail feathers off the tail boom a bit ago...
 I think I'll use it for the MAST sense its 2 pieces of 1"x3"alum box tube... but it is fairly short
so I dunno yet.
  its actually too hot to go out there and putter on the Helo so I'm hiding from the heat in the house!
....
Bob......

[Bob]

I figured I'd post a few pics of the gyro-Helo conversion...that is under way at the moment.
I have no doubt that this project will be a LONG one.
...
Tearing the Gyro apart was Hard as I put so very many hours into it and finally had it about where I wanted it... but it still needed a "Runway" to take off... and I really don't have that...so I decided to convert it to a Helicopter instead... I think I'd rather have a vertical take off machine anyway.. so why the heck not ! HAHAHAHAHHA!
...
as you can see it Resembles a G1 in frame design and function... except that the rotor head will be tilt-able by 4 to 6 degrees in all directions.
... My biggest concern is  WEIGHT... I have to keep the weight as LOW as I possibly can.
...
Bob...

[WyndFryst]

I wish I could provide input, I know almost nothing about helicopters aside from the fact that they're loud and the military uses them.

[Bob]

HAHA No problem Ken I'll figure it out ...have no fear... that's the fun part after all !
...
Now if I was Rich I'd just go out and buy all I need and have it delivered to my doorstep and have it built in a week or two.... but as it is its going to be a long project ! HAHAHAHA
but I'm in no real hurry anyway ! HAHAHA!
....
Bob....

[geezer]

   Sure not very much between you and the promise land! Better keep the preacher on your side.
     glenn

[Bob]

HAHAHA ! Good Point !
...
Bob....

[Manta]

Bob,

Should the tail rotor motor fail, will it be possible to get into auto-rotation or will you spin straight down ?

Got to be honest here and say I think you would have been better just getting the old gyro working as it was intended.  If I remember correctly you didn't get off the ground on your first attempt.  This project looks very ambitious.
Wouldn't want  to have future chats via a medium.

Dave
(Manta)

[janmarsh]

Always remember :  Pull the stick towards you, the houses get smaller.  Push the stick away from you, the house get bigger & bigger....HaHa   

You remind me of Peter O'Toole in the film Murphy's War.......  Crazy.

[Bob]

LOL !
 Yes Manta it "Should almost certainly Auto rotate"...
as far as I am concerned that is a pre requiset for this copter.
the tail rotor will be powered by the vertical drive shaft that powers the Main rotor...
this means if the engine stops so does the tail rotor... however the Main rotor will keep on turning
due to auto rotation and a sprag clutch under the rotor on the sprocket... so the rotor can spin without turning anything else in the drive train...failing that, (lack of a Sprag clutch) I do have a clutch to disengage the engine, but the entire drive trail ill spin and it may be too much for Auto rotation...so I am planning on a sprag clutch !

...
its too late to go back to the gyro Now Manta.... <GRIN>
and Yes I did...the very first time I took the gyro Out I got it about 1ft off the ground for about 8 to 12 feet... that was enough to tell me it needed to be Much MUCH stronger, it was a flying lawn chair and so far from being SAFE that it scared the heck out of me ! we went to a lower altitude dirt strip that day.... shortly there after it was fenced off and I couldn't get in. Grrrr!
so then I had to use the High altitude air port and that was when all the problems started.
....
 I really don't think flying this thing will be a problem for me...
one I am at even lower altitude now.... (1200ASL) and have room to practice ...ALL DAY if I want to!
that makes a big difference ! instead of loading it up and traveling to the landing strip.
... in Reality I think I have a BETTER chance of flying with this thing, than I ever did with the gyro.
....And Yes... I am sure I can fly it.... trying not to damage it is a bit harder however!
LOL
....
Bob.....

[Manta]

Bob,

It was this line that threw me..

....I can Power the tail rotor by my old Power-take off Pre rotator setup... with its 90 degree gear box it should do great. but I'ed like ANOTHER 90 deg gear box to drive the prop from that drive line...

I got the impression that you were going to use a separate small pre-rotor engine to power the tail rotor. I had visions of this motor stopping and you being spun around by the main rotor reaction.  Guess I misread it.

I'm all in favour of people being able to do slightly risky things if they feel they are confident.  In the UK you would be in very deep trouble indeed if you flew your own gyro around without all the right paperwork and expensive training.  I can't remember if you need to have a fixed wing license for at least VFR first.  Mind you,  you can also get a hefty fine for riding a bicycle without lights.

I would suggest two things before you you take to the air.

1) That you set up as a gyro and fit the gyro to a pivot tower so you can practice the movements without leaving the ground; you will need a strong breeze for this.

2) that you practice as a tethered kite on the end of, say,  500 foot of line.

That way you should at least have the feel of the beast before you move into the more difficult world of 'copters.


Geezer,

Hey,  good to see you back.  What ya doing these days ?

Dave
(Manta)     

[Bob]

Hay Manta !
well I was considering doing that for a while, using a small motor and prop for anti torque control
but I have decided against it in favor for the conventional powered tail rotor.
...
 I had the tail rotor apart a bit ago and tried to get it freed up a bit more and wound up making it worse ! ...go figure! so I will have to ream out the innards of the sliding collar to make it loose enough to move easy!
...
it spins when the wind blows and looks rather neet .... makes me want to get it going!
...I am setting up the tail rotor to be flat in one direction and very steep pitch in the other
sense I know the torque will be pulling toward the flattened direction I doubt I will ever need reverse thrust on the tail rotor... and that should give me a finer adjustment for keeping it pointed in the right direction....(that by the way does look to be quite difficult!)
....
I took in a truck bed full of aluminum cans this morning and got $1.74 a pound for them and came away with $105.88.... so it did pay for the trouble at least.!
.... they didn't have any scrap aluminum down there to amount to anything just a few scrap pieces I could have used for odd stuff... but not what I wanted...so I came home without it.
I'll probably order a few pieces from "Onlinemetals.com" I have dealt with them before and had no problem so I'll probably do that rather than go to the Aluminum shop in town... last time I was there they really gouged me big time !
...
progress has been very slow lately on the chopper.... lack of metal to make the engine mount and the super hot temperatures out there in the sun... make me want to stay inside under the swamp cooler !
LOL
...
Bob......

[Bob]

I came home with a nice piece of 1.5"x1.5"x48" 1/8" thick aluminum angle the other day and I quickly set out to make the engine mounts with it... got that done and the engine hanging on there "for show mostly!" and then made the rotor head pivot piece and got it bolted to the mast with 2 long bolts that I will replace with 4 case hardened bolts later.... looks like I have the side to side movement of the rotor head just about right, though I haven't measured it yet. front to back goes way too far and needs some stops of some sort installed.
...
I messed with the tail rotor allot and have got it to work fairly well, but I have yet to replace the large bolt with a good axle yet...and I suspect that will cure allot of my problems with its action working correctly...
 what I have is wide arms that push up on the rotor blade attachment points on the trailing edge of each blade... this arrangement is not the best in the world because the sliding action can cock side ways and jam... so if I make the arms shorter and then go up to the rotor blade arms it should cure the problem... I noticed that most of the helicopters in production have very close attachment points
to the rotor blade pitch arms.... Mine aren't and I am sure that's 90% of my problem...
so I will probably change that in the near future.
...
I picked up 4 heavy lawn mower blades for my lawn mower and obviously they don't fit... so I spent yesterday making them fit ! ... now that they are on there it should be better at cutting grass than it has ever been.... with no trails between the blades as it has been doing !....
fire danger is way to high to test it right now but I am sure its better than it was!
...
I even went riding the other day on the 250 trials bike... I must have played hard because I slept like a rock when I finally went to bed LOL ! man am I rusty... couldn't even go over a small log without having problems....gott'a get more riding in I guess! HAHAHAHAHAH!
...

Bob....

[Bob]

I figured out my tail rotor problem.
now the pitch change is as smooth as glass from flat to about 45Degrees.
it seams I FORGOT to add a pivot in the bearing that attaches the pitch plate to the pitch arms !
without that pivot so the bearing can follow the Arc that the pitch arms scribe when changing pitch the pitch plate has to "Corkscrew" to make up the difference...
 so I added a short piece of square steel tubing(blue) on each arm of the pitch plate(yellow) and drilled a hole so the bearings(red) will pivot in and out... this solved all the problems.
...Live and learn .... I should have noticed that when I made it... but I didn't hehehehehe

[Manta]

So what's left to do before the big day ?

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

well... Most of it at this point... I really haven't got that far...
...
need the drive line and v-belt pulleys, slip joint and then chain and sprocket at the rotor head need installed...... Clutch for the engine made up (engine tilt is all), drive for the tail rotor from the main drive shaft. and its bearings and pulleys/belts.
Rotor blades mounted and balanced....still haven't done that.
....
none of the drive train is in yet.... its all still in me head! LOL
mostly bearings and pillow blocks and v-belt pulleys are the hold up now.
...
I've spent a great deal of time on the tail rotor getting it to work properly...that's what I've been doing lately mostly...and I'm still not done...it has to be mounted and good bearings put on it...right now it has wheel barrow bearings on it ! LOL so that will never do !
...
Bob......

[Bob]

Here's a pic of the re-vamped tail rotor that I made about 5 years ago...
I had to change the bearing eyes to pivot at the bottom so they could follow the arc of the pitch horns off the blades...
the tail rotor is just clamped on at the moment , till I get some good bearings to mount it into the tail tube.
 I did spin it up to about 500RPM this afternoon and the thrust it puts out is amazing!
the pitch change seamed to work ok with finger pressure, but it did have a tenancy to gravitate to zero pitch. after taking it apart a few times and re assembling it it now goes from about -15deg pitch (reverse thrust) to approx. 40degrees. Obviously the blades need re worked.
and it shakes allot  so I'm not quite done with it yet. but Very close!
...
Bob.....

[Lee Hazleton]

Bob,
   Looks like you're getting real close to flying it. Good luck. I still think you're nuckin' futs!!

[Bob]

HAAHAHHA Howdy Lee ! long time no see...
 I think your not the only one that thinks I'm Nukin Futs! but I guess we'll see later when I try to fly the contraption!.... long Long way to go yet... it won't fly this year I'm sure...maybe next summer !
....

[Bob]

I've been delayed a bit on working on the Helo... the Car was dropping a cylinder quite often and only getting worse about it... so I did a compression check and found no 3 and no 4 cylinders way below normal 60 and 85 or so... so I parked it and tore into it, sense the wife is home recovering from surgery (hysterectomy) and won't need the car for a while I figured I'd better jump on it while the getting was good! <grin>
... I got the head off a bit ago and I was relieved to find no damage at all... looks like I stopped running it in time ! WHEW!
you can see where the head gasket was leaking between No3 and No4 cylinders... but no damage to the head or block that I can see at all... which is a relief!
...
looks like all I need to put it back together is 3 gaskets intake manifold, exhaust manifold, and head gasket..... the place where the thermostat attaches to uses a bead of RTV silicone on it....
so gaskets and another gallon of antifreeze and it should be good to go !
....
hehehe
I'm getting SLOW in my old age...it took me 2 days to get the head off.... I used to be able to do that in a few hours ! HAHAHAHAHHA!
.... oh well.... I am in no big hurry...so I'm taking my time!
...
Bob......

[Manta]

...I'm getting SLOW in my old age..

I know the feeling.  What gets me these days is the weight of the Diesel heads. Leaning over the engine compartment and lifting the head seems an awful lot harder than it was even twenty years ago.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

LOL tell me about it !  but you have to remember 75 to 100 lbs at arms length IS HEAVY !  HAHAHAHA
...
I ras real happy to discover there was no damage to the head... I thought for sure there'ed be a burn
cut in the head where the leak was....
 I think I'll go out there before it gets too hot and see if I can determan if the head is warped or not...
 wish me luck !
...
Bob.....

[Manta]

.. wish me luck !...

You got it.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

well its not very far off.... I used a large flat file and scruffed it up a bit... to find the low spots
it is a bit low where it was leaking... so I planed it down by hand with the file the best I could making sure to keep it all uniform... its slow work but I almost got it there now.
... one of those jobs that your Not supposed to be able to do ! LOL but having done it a few times before I know what to look for.... I just wish I had some machinist dye... i could really use some
anyone know of a close facsimile to machinist dye ?.... got no felt-tip pens handy.... used those before for that.... and it works ok
...
Bob....

[Bob]

well, I got the engine almost all back together now....
I still need to put the battery back in and then start it and time the ignition.... as well as put antifreeze in it... (first I add water to check for leaks)
... I plan to run it a while then re-torque the head... I figure it can't hurt !
so I am leaving off the timing belt covers for now.
man those intake bolts are a Royal Pain in the ASS ! ya can't get your hand to them and a socket and universal joint keeps slipping off and an end wrench won't turn...no room...
with all the hoses and garbage under the manifold its almost impossible even to see where they are!
but clean living and perseverance prevailed ! I finally got the last bolt on there.... the rest was easy... comparatively speaking LOL
...
Bob.....

[Manta]

Bod,

Here's a bit of an update on the gasifier scene.

http://gekgasifier.pbworks.com/w/page/Spark-conversion-for-Lister-slow-speed-diesel-engines


Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

HAHA !
thanks Manta its good to see them pressing on to get that old lister running on wood gas!
I still havn't ran my truck on woodgas yet... when I discovered how much wood it was going to take to make that thing run it really dampened my enthusium for the project ! I would need to carry at the least 3- 55galon drums of ready to burn fuel for one trip to town.... One filling to get into town and run around a bit, one to get home and one for reserve just incase I needed more fuel.
...
that doesn't sound all that bad till you realise each barrel has to be filled with wood that is no bigger than 2"x2".... that means a huge amount of RE CUTTING, chopping, chunking or busting of already dry Hard oak.
...
... I could spend all day and get only one 55 gal drum full... and well it just doesn't sound like a good alternative when I gott'a put that much work into it... a bicycle is easier !
...
if Gasoline goes up to $20.00 a gallon then yah I'll do it... but I'll do it for my SMALL PICKUP and not the super thirsty Dodge with the 318 V8 in it.
....
perhaps bags of wood pellets might be the way to go but they are almost $6.00 a bag now ...and i fear if gasoline goes up so will they...
  I just don't have a source for wood chips like the other guys do, so its not really practical for me to use Wood gas..... at the Moment.... it may be in the future, who knows... but I am not looking forward to all the blisters from the ax handle !
...
Bob.....


 

[Bob]

I did have to take the top of the car engine back appart however... seams when I put the cams in , some how one of the shims popped off... and the tapit noise was really bad so I turned it off and pulled it appart again to find the problem and found the shim in the webbing and the cam follower all chewed u by the cam... but I ordered a new cam follower and dressed up the cam , put it all back together and it runs like a top now.... I even put in fresh antifreeze this morning so I am sure its ready to go for a while ! LOL !
...glad that's over!
heehhehehe
...
Bob....

[Manta]

...and the tapit noise was really bad so I turned it off...

And pretty quickly I should imagine.

Here's an idea for your woodgas.  Why not go into the charcoal producing business ?  That way you get the gas and make a dollar or two selling charcoal.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

well I wouldn't know the first thing about making charcoal...  and that's the truth !
according to the History channel they made charcoal by cutting down trees  drying them out , then burrying them with dirt and burning them and restricting the oxygen...
now how much oxygen is too much or too little I have no idea... and it sounds like allot of work for this old man ! LOL
...
maybe I should make a real SMALL wood gas generator to power a B&S 5hp or so.... that shouldn't take all that much wood to feed it !
... I could use that to pull a generator for charging batteries to run the inverter if push ever came to shove and our economy collapses ! <GRIN>
...
it really is surprising on how much wood is needed to get a bunch of wood gas...
I think if I was to go about it SERIOUSLY and say feed the tractor I'd make up a "Chunker" out of a car/truck Rear end and make it easier to chunk the wood up...
 a Chunker is a Rotory blade on a big truck rear end that turns slowly and you stuff the stick in it and it chops it off in small sections.... its perfect for making wood for a wood gas generator.
with one of those, a fella can put out as much sized wood as he needs...as long as he has the wood lot to work from.
...but lets face it ... I have far too much to do now, that I can't get done because I don't have the time or energy to do it.... making More work for my self doesn't sound too smart ! HAHAHAHA
...
Bob....

[Bob]

Well, I've come a long way sense the last post here, but still have a very long way to go That is for sure!
...I've got the engine mounted , the tail rotor working good, though not the linkage to it.
the tail boom on and added braces to it as well.
the rotor head still isn't on yet but its getting there.
I am working on it in my spare time and havn't had too much of that lately!
... I am working on mounting the 68 tooth sprocket to the rotor head and the pinion/sprocket that drives it, then I will mount the rotor head and then do a piliminary hang test before I go any further
....
I still havn't obtained the needed bearings for the drive shaft to connect the power from the engine to the sprocket up at the rotor head... I know where to get them now, (tractor supply) but just don't have the bucks for it ! LOL
...
I spent most of the evening dismantleing a old singer sewing machine that had stripped out gears in it , boy what a field day! All kinds of goodies in that thing ! I have a good veriable speed motor from it and nore setscrews than I'll ever use!, a bunch of sliding shafts and too many pivots to count!.... those boys at the Singer Co. knew how to make something right!  I'm really impressed!
I found only 2 faults ....2 plastic gears and some Push on spring keepers other than that its probably the best designed piece of machenery I have ever incountered!.....
 not only that but I got it ALL apart without breaking a thing!  only had to use the hammer one time!
LOL !
...
anyway... next project is moving the big TV to the other end of the living room... got everything done but the move and re-hookup.... I'll probably do that in the morning!
...
Bob....

[Manta]

You've got time to watch tv !!

I'm surprised you even have time to eat with all the on-going projects.

Dave
(Manta)

[Bob]

HAHAHA...
You'd THINK that as busy as I've been that I'ed get all the projects DONE but soon as one is done 2 more pop up !  its a never ending battle.!
...
I got the TV hooked back up before the wife went Loony on me, so that was a good thing!
I even got the DVD player working and watched Aliens vs. Predator last night...sense nothing was on but INFO-mmercials!  I really do resent paying for TV and having nothing but commercials at night!GRRRrrr.
...
Football is Funner to watch now however! at least when the games are worth watchin' hehehe
...
what I'ed like to do is hook my computer to that big TV screen and play games on it ! that might even allow me to read the screen without getting a crook in my neck! LOL
its a 60" Samsung LED and its a big monster... it would make a great Monitor!... but I dunno how to hook it up ...YET !
hehehehe
Bob......