b1jetmech
Jr. Member
Posts: 60
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« on: May 24, 2009, 10:27:17 pm » |
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Feral
Sugar and Spice
Administrator
Newbie
Posts: 44
Voof!
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« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2009, 11:59:06 pm » |
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"Fall seven times, stand up eight." ~ Japanese Proverb
"Do, or do not. There is no try." ~ Yoda
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Manta
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 04:10:09 am » |
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So, a 100% pure titanium assembly...But what have we here ' IF THAT WAS STAINLESS, YOU WOULD BE LAUGHING
BUT OUR PLATES HAVE A HIGH SURFACE COATING ....
A surface coating of what ?
Must also be titanium .
Manta
(BS radar seems to be working)
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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janmarsh
Full Member
Posts: 168
Marine Engineer
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 07:01:05 am » |
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Mant, What is the conductivity of the stuff ? Is it supposed to be good ?
That coating had better be good...... Then what is the advantage ?
The Material Selected Titanium
Interacting with the Chemical Potassium Hydroxide (Caustic Potash)
Has a Compatibility Level of D-Severe Effect Ratings -- Chemical Effect
A = Excellent.
B = Good -- Minor Effect, slight corrosion
or discoloration.
C = Fair -- Moderate Effect, not recommended
for continuous use. Softening, loss of strength,
swelling may occur.
D = Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use.
N/A = Information Not Available.
The Material Selected 316 stainless steel
Interacting with the Chemical Potassium Hydroxide (Caustic Potash)
Has a Compatibility Level of A-Excellent
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« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 09:03:09 am by janmarsh »
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My Wife admits to maybe having faults...... but being wrong is'nt one of them.
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Bob
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 07:04:36 am » |
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heheheh
so what ... so its titainium ! whats the output? is it fantastically better to out date the o'l stand by of stainless steel ? Very doubtfull
...wonder how much it would cost me to make a titainum cell ? think it would be worth the money ?
I certainly don't !
...
I'll stick with stainless thank you ! HEHEHEHE
...
Bob....
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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b1jetmech
Jr. Member
Posts: 60
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 08:37:05 am » |
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They claim there is no need for EFIE's just throw it on and drive off!
I'm about to finish my new 6x6 and 8x8 cells will post pics when I do.
Chase
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Manta
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2009, 11:52:34 am » |
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Janmarsh,
Not sure, But I'll check.
I do have access to small pieces of 1 MM sheet titanium at work. I'll get a few bits when I return after this holiday and see how they react to NaOH and KOH.
I suspect that sticking to ss will be the way to go for us; but we'll see.
Manta
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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Manta
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2009, 12:25:39 pm » |
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Janmarsh,
Also found this extract.
...Brief description: titanium s a lustrous, white metal when pure. Titanium minerals are quite common. The metal has a low density, good strength, is easily fabricated, and has excellent corrosion resistance. The metal burns in air and is the only element that burns in nitrogen. It is marvellous in fireworks.
Titanium is resistant to dilute sulphuric and hydrochloric acid, most organic acids, damp chlorine gas, and chloride solutions. Titanium metal is considered to be physiologically inert...
This seems to go against the bit you quoted, at least for acids. Where did your quote come from ?
Manta
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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janmarsh
Full Member
Posts: 168
Marine Engineer
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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2009, 12:37:56 pm » |
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www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/ChemComp.asp Their seem to be contradiction's all over the Web.
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 12:57:35 pm by janmarsh »
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My Wife admits to maybe having faults...... but being wrong is'nt one of them.
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Manta
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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2009, 01:21:35 pm » |
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Janmarsh,
Just looked at your link. I see what you mean. Both NaOH and KOH are listed as severe.
I'll enquir amongst our lab rats at work. It is their job to know.
Manta
here is another list.
* Aluminum 2.65e-8
* Beryllium 4.0e2.65e
* Beryllium-copper
* Brass 70% copper, 30% zinc
* Copper 1.673e2.65e-8
* Gold 2.35e2.65e-8
* Iron 9.71e-8
* Lead 20.648e-8
* Magnesium 4.45e-8
* Molybdenum 5.34e-8
* Monel
* Nickel 6.84e-8
* Platinum 10.6e-8
* Silver 1.59e-8
* Stainless Steel-321
* Stainless Steel-410
* Steel, low carbon
* Tin 11.0e-8
* Titanium 42.0e-8
* Tungsten 5.40e-8
* Zinc 5.964e-8
The nearest it gets to stainless steel is nickel. at 6.84e-8 it seems to be better than Titanium at 42.0e-8 Ohm/Metre. In fact Titanium appears to have nearly five times the resistance of normal iron. Not good at all. Which seems to me to be saying that we should try Nickel plates.
Manta
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 01:39:29 pm by Manta »
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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hg2
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2009, 03:22:38 pm » |
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nickel plated copper plates would be better and cheaper
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Bob
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2009, 07:54:09 pm » |
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I wondered about Silver plated Coper plates myself...sense plateing is so easy to do at home....
the internal copper would be very low resistance and the silver crosion resistant... er well should be
anyway....
....
HG2 I didn't know ya wore glasses ! ..... Nice pic of ya ! <GRIN>
LOL
....
Bob....
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Cowboy
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2009, 05:21:57 am » |
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I thought nickel was pretty prone to corrosion myself. Correct me if my thought is wrong. Silver plating might not be that bad though. Maybe tinning a piece of copper with some of that silver solder would do the trick. It's a silver/tin alloy, but it should withstand corrosion, and it's cheap.
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Bob
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2009, 07:18:22 am » |
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well I thought nickel was apt to corrode as well that why I suggested silver plating
I plated a few things in a bucket over night and it worked extreamily well
and my thoughts were to put a raft of copper plates in a bucket all wired to the negative side
and a silver fork or spoon or something on the positive side and let them COOK for a few days on a low amp trickle charger or medium amp charger at 3 or 4 amps max.... increasing the electrolyte to achieve the amp draw desired... and then just let them go for a few days to a week and get a good coating of silver on the copper plates....
...
My own experiments consisted of normal steel and silver utincles.... and the normal steel tubing took the silver very well... in fact I made 4 tubes inside of tubes cells that should work well if I ever try them out....I did finish up one of them and tried it out but the amp draw was very low even with max electrolyte being used... because the spacing of the tubes being used was rather wide...about 1/4" apart....
still the IDEA has potential .... if you can find some close fitting tubes and plate them with silver it may indeed be as good as stainless steel as far as corrosion resistance is concerned...
Personally I was thinking of trying it with copper tubing because of the low resistance of copper
then coat them very well for a week or 2 and see how long the coating lasts !
.... it may well make a superior cell because of the lower resistance of the copper and have increased output because of it.... but as of right now its just a guess.....
Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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b1jetmech
Jr. Member
Posts: 60
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2009, 08:04:13 am » |
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Bob, I think you you should go out and build a dozen generators with titanium plates.  |
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hg2
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 08:20:43 am » |
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Titanium metal is very reactive with Oxygen; in fact it will burn in air or in oxidizers such as are used in pyrotechnics.
It is also able to readily absorb hydrogen to form a hydride.
What will happen is that the Positive plate will become oxidized on the surface by the first rush of current flow. After that it will be coated with an insulating layer of Titanium Dioxide which will prevent further current flow thus reducing production.
The fix is to use another metal for the Positive plate, such as stainless.
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Manta
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2009, 01:35:02 pm » |
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hg2,
That makes you wonder about the claims at the start of this thread.
I queried our lab rats and they said that as they only dissolve titanium in Aqua Regis, they didn't know what effect Caustic Soda etc will have. But I have obtained two very carefully weighed samples (to within .001 gramme) that I intend to leave in two different strength NaOH solutions for a week before re-weighing them again. Also a couple of bits to make a two-plate cell. So we'll see what happens.
Manta
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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hg2
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2009, 04:42:51 pm » |
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Manta
Sounds like a good experiment,I'm anxious to see the results.Are you going to try KOH as well to see if there're any different effects?
Btw the data I posted was from a very HHO knowledgeable source,leaving me to believe it may very well be true.
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