AUTO ELECTRONICS

[ROADKING]

I have read that if you want to use hydroxy on new vehicles, to install your cell and everything else including the electrolyte and have everything ready to go, then unhook battery for at least 30 mins.  Then start your auto, turn on cell and the computer has a learning process to see what type of fuel is being used and it will learn and adjust to that,  Has anyone tried this yet.

[Tink]

I think there may be something to that. I reset my ECU everytime I make a change to the electronics. The shop manual will tell you how to do it. On my Toyota I place a jumper between 2 test points under the hood for 15 seconds and that wipes out the error codes and starts new. That way I get a good reading on whatever error codes are coming up. This toyota is an '89 and I can read the codes right from the dash, no need for a code reader.
for what it is worth,
Tink

[Bob]

Along those lines of thought....
 if the computer in the car is "SMART ENOUGH" to adjust the fuel as it should, there should be no need for the sensor mods... and that would be fantastic !
.....
but weather it does or not is Unknown to me at this point ! ...Darn it !
...
 I did make a discovery of sorts on my toyota truck R-22 FI engine...
I made a "Matt valve" ages ago and have been useing it with and without the Hydroxy generator working... and my gas milage has stayed UP from the 22~24mpg I was getting to 29~32mpg even without the Hydroxy generator in the truck... just useing the "Matt Valve"...
However with this warmer weather I noticed the truck missing a bit pulling the hills and I had to back down the Matt Valve a tiny bit to get it to stop the missing , which it has , my milage NOW sense that adjustment went down some  to a consistant 29MPG...
but here's the funny part... when I put in the smack booster it was working great... putting out at least 2LPM.... and I headded from town up the hill and the power was better, and I thought ,"NOW we should see some real milage gains...." but at the first fill up I got a measily 32mpg !
and I thought thats just not right.... and took a look inside to find the smackbooster busted ! and barely putting out any HHO.... so I pulled it off...
but it made me think.... was it the "Matt Valve" that gave me such good milage before or the HHO !
I am thinking with Higher volumes of HHO It is probably possable to run the engine Leaner than I can now... without the HHO...
we work so hard on our generators and we give them the credit for the better MPG but I am thinking that its the combonation ... we realy have to lean out that gasoline ...otherwize you'll not see vast improvements at all
...
fwiw
Bob........

[Tink]

Bob,
I still need to re-assemble my Smack Tero and play with it again along with the EFIE to see if I get any real improvemnet in MPG. Without the Smack and not using the EFIE I'm getting a consistant 25-26mpg. That is up from 23-24mpg before I had the CV units (axel and all, both sides, front end) replaced. I believe on these Toyots we really need to somehow make the HHO genny work without taking a drain off the engine. I am getting some L16 batteries soon for free and will be tinkering with my original idea of using a solar panel and batteries with a controler to power the HHO genny. I think Toyota just made these old trucks too good and the electronics are just too dificult to overcome. You know I'm working on a wind generator, check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrdCBwqNks&feature=related

1/2 way through this video you'll see what I'm referring to....imagine the posibilities!


my thoughts for what it is worth,
Tink

[Lee Hazleton]

I'm sure you've discovered this by now, but if your vehicle has an OBD1 or OBD2, you're going to have to run EFIE's if your cell is putting out any useful amount of hydroxy. When the hydroxy mixes with the vaporized fuel, it causes it (fuel) to burn more completely, leaving a high oxygen content in the exhaust rather than carbon. The O2 sensors will detect this & think the engine is running too lean. To avoid engine damage, the ECU will dump more fuel in, thus eliminating any MPG improvement. With an O2 EFIE, you can add up to 450mv to the sensor, making it think the engine is running rich, thus lowering the flow of the fuel. In addition, disconnecting the battery will only work for a very short time. As soon as the ECU returns to 'closed-loop', it will start reading 'lean' again.

[Bob]

HAHA  TINK !  I can hear your gears turning from here.... a battery powered car with a wind generator on top ! ..... in all probability it would work great... at least it would recapture SOME of the electricity used....besides it could set in the parking lot and re charge the batteries while you shop !
....problem would be some one walking by and sticking there hand in the blades to see it it will hurt or not ! LOL...even if you had "DANGER" printed all over it !
... Perhaps a low profile horizontal wind turbine one that could catch the wind at any angle?
a 3ft disk with the same kind of generator that's on your wind mill might work real good !
....might over spin at 80mph though...but if your electric car did 80mph you'ed already plan for that I suppose ! HA !
....
Lee:
 You can cut the gas down on fuel injected engines in other ways than having to use an EFEI enhancer...
a "Matt Valve" is only one method... I got into the MAF Sensor and leaned it out by hand on my truck its not difficult at all... but the "Matt Valve" is far easier to do !
... but your absolutely right in these modern cars, you gott'a do something about the computer counteracting the HHO or you won't see any gain at all !  But there are Many ways of doing that...
or should I say a FEW ways of doing that...not that many yet<grin>, the Matt-Valve, EFEI-Enhancers,New chips for the computer, additional computers that plug into the system and allow you to control the fuel... or just manually tweaking the right parts...
...on Older car engines its relitively simple to lean out the main jets in the carberator and your all set, and if you really want to get fancy lean out the mid range jets and adjust the idle jets.
or just add a whole bunch of HHO and turn off the gas all togather ! LOL !
.....
Bob...

[Lee Hazleton]

Bob,
    How'd you lean out your MAF by hand?

[Bob]

Well technically its a Air Flow Sensor... not a MAF but close enough !
I explained how I did it here ... http://www.hydroxyhut.com/index.php/topic,38.0.html
not sure if thats a valid URL or not <GRIN> ... but its here on this forum,under "Automotive computer and Sensor Modifications" in the Topic "Adjusting the Airflow sensor in my Toyota pickup"
...(so just back out one and look to the bottom of the list , you'll find it!)
...
...
I Adjusted it twice... moving the adjustment 4 teeth in all...  it definitely leaned out the engine some,... but mot very much...I went from 24mpg to aprox 26mpg with that alone, then I added the Matt-Valve which made a big change in the MPG all the way up to 38~40MPG ! but it was winter and it was running fairly rough being that lean so I cut down the valve a little and now am about 32mpg with the engine running very smooth... even in the summer... (this is without the hydroxy generator on too.)
...
 Hope that answers your questions... I havn't tackeled any other  MAF's or air flow sensors, but most are adjustable I believe.... although the Shops and manuals say DON"T mess with those things ! HAHAHAHA
 ...
Bob......

[Tink]

Bob,
The wind turbine idea has been tried already and it is more inefficient than these HHO gennys at least on computer controled cars. The wind turbine uses too much drag from the wind and spoils any gain it can create. Some guys do mount the wind turbine on their truck but just for testing the turbine. There are videos on that very thing, I'll see if I can fine one for you. For the turbine to be efficient it has to take a lot of power from the wind and therefore slowes down the vehicle and renders it useless in that application. the wind turbine will actually spin faster then the wind is blowing.
Tink

[Bob]

hehehe
Yah that Video ya had me watch had one mounted in the back of a dump truck... but the dummies were all sitting around it  in the test...myself I'ed wann'a get a long way away from it  not sit under it ! LOL
... sounds like the props I made for my Ultralight Gyro-copter... they have a constant twist in the blade so that all of the blade pushes at the same amount... regardless of the distance away from the point of rotation... makes for a very efficient prop !....
 so with that kind of prop on a wind turbine it would spin faster than the wind blows
...although I am not sure that kind of technology is needed on a wind turbin, its true that every little bit helps !
... what would be great to have is the ability to change the angle of attack of the prop blades into the on coming wind... some of the fancier units can do that but for us home-brewers that's getting into the realm of more trouble than its worth!
 I made a real neet adjustable pitch tail rotor for a mini helicopter by using a large nut and threaded shaft that has the blade clamps on it no need for the fancy bearings just lube the nut every once in a while and your all set...
I used the LONG nuts for threaded rod connections...I was pleasantly suprized at how well it worked...even under a load ! ... so a person could make that into their wind generator but it would still be a great deal of hassel!
... nuttin' wrong with the Old wind mill designs with paddle blades and many of them... they worked very well in their day !
 Dick Strawbridge (on Planet Mechanics)made a wind mill water pump in Spain and it worked a treat!
used 8 blades made from sliced up 55 gal drum barrels all set at 45 degrees
the thing really pumped good !  I think if I make one it will be like that ... but I got so many irons in the fire now its not funny ! LOL
....
Bob......

[Tink]

From what I understand the furlering is controlled by the size and weight of the tail and how long the boom is. If it doesn't furl soon enough the windmill will spin out of control and destroy itself. The tail sits at a 4 degree angle so it doesn't contact the guy wires when furlering. I know all this will make perfect sence to me once I receive mine and start playing with. I have seen pictures of those old Burgey Wind turbines that ha the springs on the blades to adjust the angle as thind creases. Some of those from the 30's are still be ing used and there are guys who restore them for everyday use. They take a hugh tower and way out of my realm. O well I hope you all had a scary Howlleen.
Tink