A new Design here...

[Bob]

Howdy All...
I've made up a new Generator design...
see what ya think about it... tell me what ya don't like about it as that helps refine the design!
This design is of the following details...
#5 12"x12" S.S plates
gasket meterial between plates of 1/8" thickness or less.
Approximate wetted surface area inside the gaskets is 10"x10"
for a total of 500sqr inches (counting one side of the plates)
Aprox amps needed to run this cell at the Randy cell effeciency level (0.3636 LPSI)
500x0.3636=181.8 amps
output should be (0.0363636x500)=18.18LPM
however useing reduced amprage changes these readings to....
0.25x500=125 amps
LPM is then 12.5LPM
...
the plates are stacked like so.... +-+-+ and are connected togather by the white bolts in the upper corner of the cell to the right and left.
there are no netural plates in this cell.
the recurculateing tank has a alumimum flashing coil around it as cooling fins...
and both it and the bubbler have Pop off caps.
....
Your comments are most welcome ! perhaps we can tweek this into a good cell makeing 20 LPM
for cmall vehicles to run on 100% hydroxy gas Eh
....
I can supply more details of the cell if anyone wants!
...
Bob.......

[randy]

hey looks like what I'm running except for the cell, I suspect those are cooling fins on the circulating reservoir.

[Bob]

Yup,Yup ! I used the same method making a heat riser on my Dodge truck and it works great
just plane o'l alumimum flashing bent at 90Deg and then slices cut to the bend on one side
then coil it around the pipe !
...
...
Bob......

[Losttoo]

Moving on to carbon graphite disks instead of ss. Found out that the residue from the ss is not inviromentally safe and should be disposed of as hazardas waste. Will keep ya'll posted but for now don't drain those around your well. Not for sure as to the authinticity of the reports but just to be on the safe side drain 'em on the neighbors property--lol just kiddin. Just don't let them get in your well, we all know the material we use to go this is getting eattin' up by electrolosist so just think what your doing and try your best not to do any harm.
Losttoo

[Bob]

HEHEH ! Well, everytime I look at my own MATH on the subject I get this UH? feeling in the back of my head that says "WHAT the Heck are ya thinking man !"
However, I have double checked it 4 times and I Know its right, it just looks like a big blunder is all !....HAHAHAHAHHA
....
 If you take the Known output of the Randy Cell and its plate area per amps and LPM you can get a base line to make Assumptions for other cells, and that is what I did here... its dubious at best...but
should achieve somewhere in that ball park figure...
....
This cell arrangement should be a very controlable unit...and a 200 amp PWM should be able to handle
it and make a infinitely variable gas output.
...
this cell is a combonation of all the good parts of many other cells
 the Tero-Cell gasket idea.
 the Closer than USUAL spaceing of the Randy-Cell
 the Ease of Hookup of the Smackbooster plates and Randy-Cell
 the Large water capasity that we all have moved to over the last few months
 the Flooded Tero-Cell of SailorMon's design.
 And the Known Realibity of having every Plate WIRED to work.
 As well as Randy's Circulatory system.
...
although each metal plate has holes in it and there is no attempt to isolate the electrolite to seperate cells, the gas can excape from the top of the cell and Pump out Hot electrolite with it at the same time... while at the same time drawing in cooler electrolite from the bottom.
...
Wired with a Minimum of #6 wire and Soldered Lugs... there should be no real heat problem with the cell because of the Recurculatory system even useing the High amp draw...that being said there is alwayse room for improvement , like a larger 4"diam container, more cooling fins etc,etc.
...
A cell of this magnitude takes preperation to operate, the larger Altenator is a must, I was thinking a 200amp altenator just for the Cell itself in addition to the stock altenator. and perhaps a large battery for that altenator to charge as well.
however running a 200amp altenator at 180amps constantly may or may not work, and I'm thinking its going to over heat because they are not ment to be ran CONSTANTLY ! but that is a totally diferent problem than the cell itself.
...
this is no small undertakeing, and expensive, although the Metal plates can be purchased at "Onlinemetals.com" for something like $9.00 a plate that is only 1 piece of the puzzel and adding it all up gets to be quite expensive indeed. $200 to $300 for the Altenator, another $75.00 for a good battery,the plexy-glass,gasket meterial,fittings hoses and PVC pipe all add up...
but I am guessing at under $1,000.00 for a top quality unit that should produce at least 15LPM even on a bad day... should push the gas milage way over 100MPG on my truck or perhaps even into 100% mode once cruseing down the road.( turn off the fuel pump)
...
 I have no way of knowing if it will Work as planned or not... but I think it Should <GRIN>
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if any brave soul wants to build one please let me know and I will post more detailed pictures of the cell itself for your ease of makeing it.
... I plan to make one shortly, but have too many things going on at the moment. so it will have to wait a while !.
....
Comments welcome, good or bad.
...
Bob.......

[KF-Puffin1]

I do have one question about the cell....the circulation of the water? is it actually circulating? like a constant,or is it just a refill system to place lost water back into the system?

[KF-Puffin1]

wait a minutei think i got it correct me if i am wrong ,but i must have missread the post.


This design is of the following details...
#5 12"x12" S.S plates
gasket meterial between plates of 1/8" thickness or less.
Approximate wetted surface area inside the gaskets is 10"x10"
for a total of 500sqr inches (counting one side of the plates)


so.......they are 12x12 plates,but the gasket only covers 10x10 on the plates.
and the cell is filled completly to the top, to the gasket?
causeing the electrolite to flow along with the bubbles to the next chamber/cooler?
am i correct?

[hydrotinkerer]

I have built 4 different sizes and they work great. All run 105*F or cooler after 5-6 hrs of operation.

[Bob]

You got it Hydrotinkerier !
yah the gasket sets in from the outside edge some so they will act as cooling fins to some extent
....
I have been toying with the idea of useing RTV silicone only for the gaskets but keep the plates appart while they dry by putting a small washer at strigitic points so the seperation is the same.
or a perminant plastic piece of 1/8" plexyglass could be used on the outside of the RTV silicone to keep from crushing the plates too close togather.
...
You said you have 4 diferent sizes of these type of cells going ? fantastic!
can you give me the spec's on them and what they produce that would help a great deal !
...
Bob.......

[hydrotinkerer]

I know of a guy that used 1/8" plexi w/shower pan gaskets on either side. He trashed it after a month saying the plexi cracked on multiple occasions. If fact he now uses o-ring material. I haven't herd how its going yet. I went to a rubber company and bought 1/8" neoprene. Bought a 36"x36" piece for 27 bucks. Makes plenty of gaskets.

[Bob]

Yes KF-Puffin1:
you got it.....
the water has no choice but to go out with the bubbles so I use it as a internal pump to curculate the water automatically... when a bubble moves water and gas out the upward sloped tube it will draw in fresh cooler electrolite from the bottom line to the cell, so there is no vacume or pressure diferiential between the cell and the recurculateing tank.
from there the gas is piped to a conventional bubbler.
....
the reason for the gasket being in from the outside edges on the stainless steel plates is to leave about 1/2" of steel exposed to the air as cooling fins.... this may or may not me nessarry it just seamed like a good move sense we fight heat all the time with these things...
... thats why you don't get all the 12"x12" plate area... instead the smaller pattern inside the inside edge of the gasket is calculated , not the entire plate...
other wize we'ed have something like 720sqr inches and it would push the needed amprage up over 200 amps to operate the cell effeciently....
....
 Bob.......

[KF-Puffin1]

since both inlet and outlet are on the same side of the main cell .....do you think there will be any temperature changes from front to back of the cell? since water should flow in the easyest flowing direction,wouldn't the water not run to the back of the cell as easy as it does the front of the cell?
maybe unless you have a pipe/tube/hose or a run channel through the plates to the rear of the cell.

please don't get any of my posts wrong ,I'm not trying to criticize anyones work or effort.I'm just in process of designing a similar cell and had a different idea about water circulationwater.but if this design can actually keep the water flowing over a stretch of about 6 foot of tubing and back.i would be a wonderfull thing, that i may have to try

[Bob]

Yah your right It might be better to have them one on the front and the other on the back
good thinking !
...
here is a few more pics of the cell
one of the plate dimentions
and the other so you can see how the plates connect in the 3D view.
...
Bob

[KF-Puffin1]

Nah i truly like the idea of having both fittings on one side of the unit....easy to mount close to wall or whatever....but possibly using another fitting to extend the inlet through a couple of plates or all the plates may increase the cooling for all plates in cell

[Manta]

180 amp.  Isn't that about 3 horse power at 12 volt.

Manta

[Too Many Secrets]

If the outside of the last plate is exposed, it could be mounted to the frame and be it's own (Neg -). It would be a 1 wire design.... But that would have to be (-+-+-)...

Maybe a (-NNN+NNN-) wiring?

Sorry, I'll go back to my rock... 

[Bob]

Probly closer to 5hp or 8hp depending on the system... its a good drag on the payroll no doubt but its worth it for better gas milage!
...
Bob......

[charley]

If you want some cheap rubber gasket material you might try this.  I went down to the local coop station and got a used tractor inner tube from them.  they had a whole pile of them that they probably have to pay to get rid of.  I didn't mic it but would I'd say it's close to an 1/8.

By the way nice site bob.  Thanks for all your work!!!

[Bob]

HAY YAH Charley ! thats a great idea !
and 18 wheeler innertubes would work as well ! like you say they are about 1/8" thick ...
thats a perfect gasket meterial ! soft enough to seal good yes reziliant enough to handle the tortures of use !
.... good thinking !
thinner gaskets could be regular auto innertubes ! they are about 1/16" thick !
...
Bob......

 

[randy]

It'll work on a cell that doesn't get hot, used some innertube material on one of my experiments a few years ago, they vulcanized the plates together, probably work fine if the cell doesn't get too hot.

[charley]

Yeah, if it gets hot your screwed.

[geezer]

just a thought, try PAM on gaskets to keep from sticking.

[randy]

not sure about Pam but I had a foaming problem once, put a couple drops of cooking oil in it, got rid of the foaming problem but really messed up the cells, turned all black and crusty.

[Bob]

HAY ! wait a minute... I remember making a insulator one time from innertube rubber...and the innertube has a good deal of continuity through it... which makes it unsuitable for a Hydroxy cell !
put an ohm meter on it and test first if you want to try it...
 some innertubes are diferent than others so you might find one that has no continuity but I seriously doubt you will... I tried to use innertube rubber for a 2 meter antenna base seal and insulator... it did NOT work ! I had a 3:1 match that I could not get down and I fought it for about 3 days only to discover it was the Rubber I used,... I tossed that and made 2 layers of a gallon milk carton do the job and had a 1:1 match...
...
so Innertubes will not work.... unfortionately...  DARN !!!
...
Bob.......