2 liters a minute at 5 amps?

[b1jetmech]

Hello all,

I found this on Ebay and do you know how they did 2 LPM at 5 amps? I'd say that's revolutionary.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/The-Most-Efficient-Hydrogen-HHO-Generator-On-The-Market_W0QQitemZ260370181240QQihZ016QQcategoryZ46093QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[janmarsh]

Sodium Hydroxide as electrolyte.............Interesting !!!    Need to look at the cell design of that one.        I,ve sent for a full test report & lab details.

Cleaned once every six months?       I think the customer will have to replace his engine once every six months.

           Wait for the feedback.   I fear we are about to see a very pissed off customer.

[b1jetmech]

The cell design itself, I wonder if they have it wired in series.

Using Sodium Hydroxide I wonder how that measures up to KOH?

Chase

[mileageseeker]

  They got 2.13 LPM at 73.14 watts in their dreams. 29.12 mmw, come on, get real!! I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting tired of people making ridiculous, absurd, stupid claims. They says (lab tested and certified) I wonder if they would supply the name and phone number of the lab?
  About sodium hydroxide, it's being used by some experimenters but because it goes out of solution they all use two bubblers to clean the gas before sending it to the engine. Get some lye, mix up a little batch and hang a piece of aluminum in it. What you see happening would be going on inside your engine if the gas isn't scrubbed clean. Most say, better to stick with potassium hydroxide, and always use a bubbler.

[Manta]

Voltag        Elapsed Time       Temperature         HHO LPM               Amps
12.0 V           20 min                141 F                   1.73                 4.5
13.0 V           40 min                147 F                   1.82                 4.8
13.5 V           60 min                150 F                   1.98                 5.0
13.8 V           80 min                156 F                   2.13                 5.3


Now that's different.  Notice that as the amp draw increases,  the voltage also increases.  It's normal for the voltage to drop as the amps increase.  although at that small current I would expect the voltage regulator to hold it pretty constant.

Manta

[janmarsh]

Got this back from them.   This unit is giving 400% output compared to a cell considered a good performer.   Too good to be true ?  

You must ask yourself why this official copy of performance is not shown on ebay ?  Sorry to sound cynical.

[b1jetmech]

Okay, Now I'm really confused into how he did it.

My best guess is there are two cells that are in series which could explain the low amp draw. Did he measure the H2 output with an actual flow meter? 

[Manta]

They say that the high output and low current was probably down to the way the plates were connected.  The say that they didn't have any plans and thus don't know how the connections went.  Not very scientific.

Manta

[Painless]

To quote the document:

"In conjunction we measured the temperature of the exterieor of the generator"

They recorded exterior temps in the range of 141 to 156 F, with these kind of temperatures reaching the outside of the PVC, it is my experience that much higher temps are evident inside.  The generator is a water boiler and the majority of the 'huge' output is steam vapour.

If you want to buy one, simply drain the system and fill it with fresh tap water, drop in a couple of teabags, wait about 10 minutes then drain it into a mug containing milk and sugar.  I'm sure it will be quite refreshing!

One lump or two?

Russ.

[janmarsh]

You would assume such things are understood by The Assistant Dean Of Science.  That would be criminal of a university to overlook such things.

[mileageseeker]

I'm fighting the temptation to ask him if he offers a money back guarantee. If so, then actually buy one so I can put it on the flow bench to see what it really does. As Painless says, we know it'll certainly brew a cup of tea. 

[b1jetmech]

Well, 2 LPM on 5 amps is revolutionary. Someone buy one and try it out...and get back to us

[Bob]

Well, the best output I have ever seen to date is n the "Randy Cell" and under the careful construction of Randy that little cell can out preform anything I have seen to date ! ... but Reproducing it to get that much output is very difficult... if I remember right Randy got 1.5LPM at 10amps with a single "Randy cell"... but I have never achieved that much... he is simply better at making one than I am <GRIN>
and if you think about it it probably is possible to achieve 2LPM at 10amps but I sure don't know HOW it could be done... but as for that guys claim... I'ed say Hog wash!
and without very spific info on how he measured it , and what kind of power he was using I would say its just nonsense....and that it can't be done!
something is giving him a false reading...but you'ed think a guy would double check those things before making such statements... but try to keep an open mind... it is POSSABLE simply because anything is possable in this world ! but at the same time its Highly unlikely!
...thats like getting 21LPM out of the old JOE cell....  come on !  you'ed be lucky to get 2LPM out of it at 30amps ...how in blazes are you going to get 21 LPM ?   by not regulateing the power and pluging it directly into the battery and let it go into thermal run away.... thats how!  is that the proccess that this guy gets his high output ?  I'ed say more than likely !
...
if its a comercial unit and it used Sodium Hydroxide I quit looking at that point ! <GRIN> sodium Hydroxide is bad news in Hydroxy gas production !
....
so maybe there is something about letting a cell go into thermal runaway ? besides the boiling of the electrolyte... perhaps when a cell is in thermal runaway it produces large amounts of Hydroxy gas
if allot of that happends to be water vapor  just run it through a condencer and get it back
maybe thermal runaway is a good thing? we have been fighting trying to stay away from thermal runaway
but has anyone tested a cell much that does go into thermal runaway ? I doubt it !
... perhaps that a piece of the puzzel ...who knows!
...
Bob.......

[Painless]

Bob,

When a cell goes into thermal runaway, even if we put the steam vapour to one side for the moment, consider how much the gas will expand due to heat. When we measure HHO we are measuring volume displacement. When you heat a volume of any gas, the warmer it gets the more volume it occupies.

Russ.

[janmarsh]

Q:  WOW thats 34 MMW Your 2 LMP @ 5 amp claim seems to good to be true. 2 LPM @ 5amps is actualy "over unity" IF the internals are something other than stainless steal, that might exlpain your super high output Mar-23-09
A:   Your assumptions may or may not be correct. There are a lot of "Exotic" materials out there. That is all I am willing to say. 
Q:  how would this unit work on a 3 cyl. kubota diesel? Mar-23-09
A:   It would work very well on either the TLB series or the Mx series. One is naturally aspirated, the other supercharged. The setting on the EFIE unit would be extremely important. The installation instructions would be different on the supercharged model. In addition to saving fuel, you would have a noticeable gain in power. If you decide you want to purchase one please inform us at the time if your unit is supercharged.
Q:  I have a few Qestions what does "Sodium Hydroxide" do ?? Will this unit make 2 liters per min. using only distilled water only ?? If not how much will it make using distilled water ONLY ?? You said it needs to be cleaned every 6 months, what happens if it doesn't get cleaned out?? Also where can I buy the stuff to add in with the water?? Also how much does it cost ?? have you ever put 2 or 3 of these on one car?? if so did it make any diff. ?? Thank You Mar-17-09
A:   1. Sodium Hydroxide (more common name) Lye. when mixed with water forms an electrolyte. similar to the acid used in your car battery to create an electrolyte or electrolytic solution. 2. No. Just as your car battery will not produce 12 volts on pure water neither will this generator. We have never paid for test results of water only, since water only is contrary to the design principal of this unit. Remember our objective was to attain the highest output with the lowest amperage draw, with physical size or the unit paramount, which is not attainable with distilled water alone. If it like every other generator on the market is not cleaned as needed (6months is a ball park figure it really depends on the amount of driving you do, could be once per year. There will form a residue on the stainless steel plates and it will loose HHO output. (relate it to changing the oil in your car, or cleaning your fuel injectors) You never need to replenish the sodium hydroxide. You re-use your old filtered solution. If you want to buy the highest grade possible like we use it is available from essentialsolutions.com. The cost around $10.00 for 2 pounds. No we have not found the need for more than one unit per vehicle. Our unit puts out more than twice the amount of hho (lab tested and certified)as the average unit advertised on ebay. This is off the record, but just to inform you, we built a new experimental unit yesterday. It bench tests better than anything we have ever built. We will be installing it on a test vehicle today. It is scheduled in The university Science Lab for testing input voltage, operating temperature, Liters per minute, and amperage draw. At various voltage inputs. We are hoping for a 25% to 50% gain over our current model. Down side is it will be more costly to produce.
Q:  does this unit ever need to be cleaned out.if so how? i cant afford much do you sell unassembled kits for less? Mar-10-09
A:   Yes we recommend cleaning every six months. Empty the contents into a container and save. Fill the unit with water & Vinegar and shake. Discard the vinegar water. Filter your old solution through a coffee filter & replace. No we do not sell in kit form. Our design is one that we do not want to share. Our unit is so unique that I do not want anyone trying to copy it. I am sorry but I spent over 2 years to come up with this unit, and find low amperage draw and extremely high output. You can buy a unit quite similar to this with a few extra frills with a one liter output in kit form from eagle-research.com The kit price is $388.00 plus 10% more for shipping. Thanks for your interest. Darol Darol Mason
 
Ask seller a question
 

[b1jetmech]

Bob,

When a cell goes into thermal runaway, even if we put the steam vapour to one side for the moment, consider how much the gas will expand due to heat. When we measure HHO we are measuring volume displacement. When you heat a volume of any gas, the warmer it gets the more volume it occupies.

Russ.

Do you think 5 amps is enough to get it warmed up to those kind of temperatures that are advertised?

[b1jetmech]

Q:  WOW thats 34 MMW Your 2 LMP @ 5 amp claim seems to good to be true. 2 LPM @ 5amps is actualy "over unity" IF the internals are something other than stainless steal, that might exlpain your super high output Mar-23-09
A:   Your assumptions may or may not be correct. There are a lot of "Exotic" materials out there. That is all I am willing to say.

Oh, Come on! He didn't want to "spill the beans" and tell you?

[Bob]

Sorry guys...I'll believe it when I see it ! not before !
...
Bob.......


University tested UH ? oooh htat gives me LOTS of confidence... do they know what a flow meter is and that it has to be one for Hydroxy gas ( which are not made) so what are they testing it with a Hydrogen flow meter ? that explains the HIGH reading because there is Oxygen in that hydrogen and it would mess up the readings...
the 2 liter bottle in a bucket and a stop watch is the best most accurate way to test HHO output guys
...and if they rely on a UNIVERSITY to do their testing... well nuff said !
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
...
Bob.......

[fishman]

They were only off by one decimal point. ish  2. LPM was more like 0.2 LPM


I tested this unit for a few hours yesterday. On the chance they where truly onto something new and amazing i did buy one.

Anyway at 12 volts 6 amps got 0.143 LPM  (never got up to the 145 temps)

the best efficiency i saw out of it was 3.5 MMW

[b1jetmech]

Fishman,

Sorry it didn't workout for you, I'd expect more results. Have you contacted them yet about the results? I'm curious what they said.

Chase

[mileageseeker]

Fishman,


That 143 ml/min 12 volts at 6 amps is an mmw of 1.986. If you somehow got it up to an mmw of 3.5, that would be really good for a wet cell. I hope the guy will give you a full refund. BTW, Bob, I do use variable area flow meters that have had HHO conversions done for me by an engineer at the company that manufactures them. They read directly in LPM of HHO, combined with the watt meter on my flow bench mmw calculations are quick and easy. At $160.00 each I know not everyone will ante up for one, but my partner and I wanted the most accurate measurements we could afford. I have a friend who bought an extremely accurate digital flow meter calibrated for HHO, however he spent several times what I did. We hope to A-B them at the Jarboe's mill event in May. Hope to see a bunch of you guys there.

[fishman]

 I got 3.5 MMW when i bumped the volts up to 19 volts.

IN all fairness i bought the prototype of their NEW Mighty mite II  it was suppose to put out more gas than the original Mighty Mite.

After a great deal of qualifying of my testing procedures. This morning i received an apology and they offered me a full refund.  They did explain that their was some design flaws in the new mighty mite II. (They did remove the mighty mite II from Ebay) They also said the original mighty mite does perform as described. 

 

[Bob]

Thank you Fishman for clearing that up for us   0.2LPM at 5amps I can believe !
.... remember if it sounds too good to be true...it probably is !
...
Bob....

[Painless]

I'd like to see the inside of that cell before you send it back, any chances of some pics?

[fishman]

Just an update

Don't stick a fork in this one yet!

After my testing of the first day and telling the builder about the short falls. The builder tested their own unit mighty mite II with the standard bottle method and found the same low performance as i did.

They removed all their products from Ebay and stop selling them. I thought this showed some very good integraty on their part. They have kept me apprise of the progress of their trouble shooting. They have accepted constructive criticism well also.

They seem to have determined a issue or two. And they have made some good progress in fixing the problem. The resulting numbers that they are telling me are incredible i mean INCERABLE! I have not sent back the one they sent yet, so i am going to test some of there adjustments and see if this one sees big performance improvements. 

It seems to that this unit does not responed the same as normal electrolysers too outside infuances.

[fishman]

15.04 MMW for the new Mighty mite III
11.6 MMW for the original Mighty mite

They re listed the Mighty Mite's. It looks like they discontinued the mighty mite II (I bought the Prototype of this one which did not live up to claims) and they posted  MMW rating base on the standard submerged bottle testing.   

I have spent a bit of time corresponding with Darol.  He mentioned something I find very strange he gets very different readings based on back-pressure the littlest back pressure change his reading a lot.

1/4" delivery hose = almost 12 MMW - 850 mlPM
3/8 delivery hose = 15MMW- 1100 mLPM
unrestricted  = 26MMW 1950 mLPM

Not knowing what the internals look like it hard to make any sense out of this response to back pressure. (FWIW note he did tell me from the start that the university reading were with cap off ) 

[b1jetmech]

Thanks for the update Fish.

I'm glad they had the integrity about their product and the humility to acknowedged a mistake then removed their product for correction.

[mileageseeker]

I'll believe it when I see it on my flow bench! I don't use a plastic bottle or a stopwatch. My flow meters are factory calibrated to read directly in HHO and I use a direct reading watt meter.If any of you guys want a cell accurately tested, contact me and we'll arrange it.   

[fishman]

I'll believe it when I see it on my flow bench!

Yeah, me to.
I'm optamistic but i tend to be too trusting. The back-pressure reaction seems like a red flag. And there is a couple of other things he says seem a little off.

[Manta]

Fishman,
re the back-pressure.

What would appear to be happening is that as the bore of the pipe increases,  the pressure in the cell decreases.  this is logical if the cell is running at a constant current an producing a constant volume of gas.

As the pipe size increases it will reach a point where there is virtually no pressure in the cell as it is flowing out as fast as it is being made. Taken to it's extreme would be to run the cell with the top off. Same volume being produced,  but no pressure.

This effect would show up if some kind of pressure guage was inserted into the line before the flow-meter.

Manta

[Bob]

Humm.... Daryl may indeed have something there with the back pressure guys !
on my very first cell I tested it with stright water and it was bubbling away quite well in an open bucket.... I put it in a sealed container to test the LPM and with the top off the container it looked ok.... soon as I put the top on the bubbleing almost completely stopped !.... I used a 1/4" hose to guage this and it hardly redgistered at all... just a bubble every once in a while.... but it was working.... pop the top off and it imediately started putting out much more.... and thats only a very slight back pressure ! the amount of pressure it takes to push down the water 3" in a 1/4" hose ! 
....
which makes me think it may well be a great idea to run your Hydroxy generator under Vacume.... as much vacume as you can get in your engine !
it may well inhanse the production of HHO in a very large way ...
... it may be a good thing to test and see ! 
...
Bob.........

[fishman]

Thanks Manta, i do understand well the effects of back-pressure on gas.  I just was under the impression that back pressure had virtually no effect on electrolysers production of gas. 

Humm.... Daryl may indeed have something there with the back pressure guys !
on my very first cell I tested it with stright water and it was bubbling away quite well in an open bucket.... I put it in a sealed container to test the LPM and with the top off the container it looked ok.... soon as I put the top on the bubbleing almost completely stopped !.... I used a 1/4" hose to guage this and it hardly redgistered at all... just a bubble every once in a while.... but it was working.... pop the top off and it imediately started putting out much more.... and thats only a very slight back pressure ! the amount of pressure it takes to push down the water 3" in a 1/4" hose ! 
....
which makes me think it may well be a great idea to run your Hydroxy generator under Vacume.... as much vacume as you can get in your engine !
it may well inhanse the production of HHO in a very large way ...
... it may be a good thing to test and see ! 
...
Bob.........

Wow this is strange to hear. I have never heard of anybody reporting this.  I have even seen test under vacuum that showed know change to cell performance (Zero F F test # 52 or 53. I've always assumed that back pressure had no effect on production. This info that your relating here BOB is of major significant to me!

If this is the case every cell should have a Pressure/Vacuum gauge on it. If not just to compare apples to apples when looking at MMW...     

Thinking out loud here. This back pressure production relationship could easily work to the benefit of variable delivery of HHO in a car. Just assume the Mighty Mites numbers are correct (for the purpose of the ratios). If a ventures is put in the air intake tube on a car. I could adjust it to have a little positive pressure at idle (say about 40" of water =  20"hg = or 1.5 psi) on the HOD system. That would only allow 0.850 LPM of HHO Like the 1/4" hose did. Now when acceleration starts, the venturi starts pulling a negative pressure. The faster the intake air moves past the venturi the more negative pressure it will pull= more HHO up to the 2LPM.

Roland

[mileageseeker]

I will consider the Mighty Mites’ numbers correct only when I read them on my flow bench. I have tested for the purchasers, the products of three different manufacturers, and to my disappointment not to mention the customer who anted-up the green, none of them produced as claimed. Some not even close. Until I see accurate results, I will believe the Mighty Mite might not. I know several respected developers who have yet to achieve 7.0 mmw, let alone unbelievable numbers such as these.  One purchaser is being refused a refund because he went beyond the incredibly “generous” warranty period of thirty days. These instances and many more like them combine to make an indisputable case for the formation of the “International HHO Institute” http://ihhoi.org/. As you may, or may not know, many of the most knowledgeable and highly recognized leaders in the field of HHO development have joined together to form this organization for the purpose of creating standards for the industry. The constitution and by-laws for the IHHOI were ratified on March 11, 2009, and committees are now being formed for developing standards in areas such as safety, design, materials, installation, and several more. Future plans for the IHHOI include a totally objective and impartial certification process for manufacturers’ products, giving the consumer the assurance that the product they may be considering in fact meets the manufacturers’ advertised claims. The Institute also endeavors to become a leading voice, lobbying for the HHO industry. If you are really serious about advancing the merits of HHO, the IHHOI welcomes your participation. “Put membership at the top of your priority list!”

[Manta]

Fishman,

I don't think the back pressure will have any effect on the production, only on the visibility of the bubbles.
If you think about a soda bottle for a minute. When you get it from the shop there is no sign of the gas in it (unless you shake it) but when you open the top the bubbles become apparent as the pressureised  gas is released from the liquid.
I  don't see how the pressure (or lack of it) can effect the electro-chemical action going on between the plates.

Manta

[janmarsh]

I recall Randy mentioning a strong belief in vacuum having a very definite advantage in gas production.

[Bob]

Personally I really don't know if Vacume or back pressure effects gas production at all...
I know it does slightly...but that is all I kn ow about it....
under 14psi the output of my 1.5LPM pressure went down to 1.25LPM at 14psi
for the pressure I needed I accepted that as a nessarry evil...<GRIN>
Logic tells me that generation of the gas under a vacume would have the oppisit effect of being under pressure, but I have not tested it....
in this case I have to side with Manta on this as it probably is VISUAL more than anything else
but I wanted to point out the possability of something else going on ...as there COULD be something there to exploite !
....
I think under a slight vacume you will start to get tiny bubbles of oxygen out of the water anyway...and thats probably what I saw....I simply started and stopped the normal proccess of oxygen getting free of the water...( we have very oxyginated water here from the rolling creek)
 and it certainly doesn't take much because the oxigen in water is very loosly attached....
...
......
Milageseeker:
 How much does Membership cost in that IHHOI thing ? sounds like a worthy indevor....
...
Bob.........

[Cowboy]

Personally, I don't think recreating the wheel is necessary at this point, because all of our set-ups create a vacuum when we start our engine.  Whether it does, or does not, create a difference is insignificant because of the negative pressure created when our engines are running.  You can hook the cell up with a larger hose, but the vacuum created will remain the same in respect to the inlet of outside air.  For FI it is the size of our intake air hose, for carburation, it is the size of our venturae.  In either event, the total amount of suction is the same.  If you question that, then you question things that can't be questioned. 

[fishman]

Cowboy,  I was just thinking out loud with the variable delivery idea, maybe getting ahead of myself. IMO that is not reinventing the wheel, more like trying to think outside of the box. Also i would disagree with your engine creating any useful vacuum on start up... I think most folk hook up hho before the throttle body and the low pressure there is very limited... Ether way it is a moot point, if the claims of this seller are not correct.

Reaction to back-pressure that this seller described is huge over 100% increase. Going from 0.85 LPM too 1.95LPM and not characteristic of closed bath/drycell electrolysers from my limited experiences with testing electrolysers.
 What he is claiming can not be explained by visual interpretations or gas expansion...  The bottle method of testing does not lie, it is practically fool proof, it is also accurate. The submerged bottle test can only be off be only a very few percentages, due to heat and atmospheric pressures.  From what i can tell ether the guy is making up numbers as he goes, or he is onto something very different from the norm.

I did return the first unit, and asked for another unit but only if he tests it first, and it has better than 15 MMW performance, or to just give a refund will see which route he goes.

[mileageseeker]

Bob,

You can find out more by clicking on the link in my last post. If one might ask, why should I join this organization? The answer is this; as hard as many of us work to develop and promote this technology, there are vested interests working just as hard to see to it that this technology is discredited and cast to the wayside. Did you watch dateline last Sunday 4-5-09? Not that Dennis Lee is right or wrong, but the fact that the viability of HHO got dragged through the mud with nobody defending it. When our credibility gets challenged as it has been and will be again, it's going to be a benefit to us all to have a knowledge backed, credible organization with documentation, credentials and a store of data, that we can rely on to go to bat on our behalf. We're all scraping to fund our own HHO agendas, but if you think about it, becoming a member, participating in and helping to build this organization, with many of the industry’s best and brightest already on board, may just be the best bargain in HHO that we can buy.

[Cowboy]

I actually liked your idea Fishman, didn't mean to come off that I was knocking it.  I started to give my own idea to the same end, when the whole engine vacuum thing dawned on me.  It's hard for us to accurately recreate the environment our engine produces when we're testing on the bench, but I guarantee that if pressure, or vacuum, play a part in production, the engine vacuum is a huge player.

Case in point; on my first cell I had a hose coming from the lid of my cell to the bottom.  It was open to outside air, the theory being that the suction of air would help 'force' the hho into the engine, and having the air travel through the water first would act as a filter.  What happened was I sucked up a lot of water, about half of it.  That was my fault because of the design of my cell.  There was no air gap in the cell, and I wasn't running a bubbler.  But, what it did prove is that there is a lot of vacuum there.  I had that one tapped into the intake runner on the car, post MAF sensor.  I also had a problem with my tubing collapsing after warming up, which made be use fuel line instead of vacuum hose. 

I ended up sealing the hole and didn't have that issue any more, but that's when the collapsed lines started showing them selves.  The same amount of vacuum was found on my F-150 as well, plugged in to the intake runner, post MAF sensor. 

[fishman]

I did return and get a refund from the seller for the prototype unit he sold me . I'm still working with him to get to the bottom of these numbers and...

Cowboy, I personally have not observed much vacuum in air intake hoses. I'm sure it does vary with dirty air filters and different engines...  Here's a link to what i had in mind about a variable output HHO delivery system, since its a little off topic here. http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=3277

[Cowboy]

The other page is still loading, but as a side note, where do you input the HHO to?  I do it after the filter, not before. 

Still waiting on the other page...

I love my internet connection, really...

Still waiting...


Okay, still waiting, so I will reply again later.

[biggy boy]

I see he is up to version #4 of the Mighty Mite, for his Ebay sales.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/The-Most-Efficient-Hydrogen-HHO-Generator-On-The-Market_W0QQitemZ250480356168QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090810?IMSfp=TL0908101510004r29517

Any updates on this unit?


Glen

[Bob]

HAHHA
Man having high speed internet is neet ! I got to read the info at the link above for the first time !
...
 He made a few statements that interested me !

"
Many recent Studies have now concluded that you only need 1/4 liter of HHO for each liter of your engine size to achieve
Significant Mileage Gains
"
.....
 if that is true, then much less Hydroxy gas can be used then we have thought !
..
He also said........
"
I then did one of the smarter things I have done in my life,  and ordered an ErHyzor  unit from Eagle Research.  It came in kit form,  which was great,  because I could see the entire design concept.  It performed admirably 500ml per minute at 3.85 amperage draw. and gave me a 20% increase in mpg.  on one vehicle and 24% on another.  I carefully analyzed their concept and decided that if I were to alter their design that I could increase production without significantly increasing the amperage draw.   Well we are now "23"  different design changes later,  and a different electrolyte.  Each change brought about improvement and I now have a product that can significantly improve your gas or diesel mileage per gallon.
"
Ok it wasn't his design but he improved upon it ... nothing wrong with that at all !

"
and devise Multiple Series Wired Flooded Cell, Single Source Feed Technology.  This technology allows extremely High Hydrogen Output with minimal amperage draw on your Vehicle
"

but that last one has me stumpped !  what the heck is he saying ?  mutable series cells that are all connected to one power source ?

Connecting plates in series ...  Does this lower the amperage they need to work ?
...
all my cells have been parallel hookup not series !
 
I am at a loss here !
...
Bob.......

[Tink]

Bob,
You got high speed internet  now? Wow! great! Goto www.speakeasy.com if you already haven't to see what your speed is. I'd like to know. I'm only getting 950-1100 bps and Frontier has oversold their bandwith and in the evenings it gets real slow. I guess that's DSL for you.
Tink

[Bob]

Howdy Tink you o'l Raskel !
well at that joint ya sent me to I chose san fransisco as the test reciever...
I got 1346kbs Dwn load
and 66kbs up load...
...
for some reason I have a constant 3~4kbs going all the time... havn't figured that one out yet <GRIN>
...
 I connected through Wild blue Satilite internet and so far so good... we got the pro package but may well downgrade in the near future so its cheeper... right now its something like $79.00 a month... (OUCH!)  but it is very fast and I can play World of warcraft on it...and even with its 3000ms latency its far better than dial up was its silly !
...
I down loaded a huge file in a matter of minutes that would have taken me all day to complete on dialup...
 it is expensive...no doubt about that...but its very fast and my Kid and I can be on line at the same time with no ill effects...which is a vast improvement !
...
...

  Back to the subject.... I am wondering How you can possably hook up plates in a Hydroxy cell so they are in SERIES..... not in Parallel.... the more I think on it the more I am confuzed!
any way I try to wire it in my head it comes out in parallel... not series !
because you have to have  alternateing polarity on your plates to be effecient...at least I think so! ..... LOL
... can anyone shed some light on this for me
...
Bob...

[Tink]

Bob,
I had Starband years ago and it was awfull. Everytime the wind would blow it got real flakey. I'm glad to see satallite internet has gotten much better. You may be able to do internet TV or Netflex realtime  with that speed.

Maby they are talking about two or more sets of parellel plates hooked up in series in the same bath.
Tink

[Bob]

That's the conclusion I came up with... 2 parallel cells in series, so they are technically lying to try and make it mysterious ! really hard to say... but their LPM readings are way off they admitted that much. but they insist that their output is higher than any cell on the market at the lowest amperage...
   I can't see where a 72 year old guy would lie about such results ...unless he is completely decieved!  hehehehehe
...
 oh well... guess we'll never know !   "Fishman" did us a great favor by buying one and testing it himself... with results that are more in line with our understanding on how electrolysis works.
...
 Thanks Fishman !

I guess he actually put the subject to rest <GRIN>  I'm just a bit slow ! HAHAHAH

...
Bob...

[Manta]

Bob,

re,
...well at that joint ya sent me to I chose san fransisco as the test reciever...
I got 1346kbs Dwn load
and 66kbs up load...

Do you mean kb or KB ?

I just ran the program using San Fransisco as the target and got

Down load = 5849 Kb/s (731.1 KB/s)
Up Load    = 459   Kb/s (57.4 KB/s)

Remember I'm in the UK.

Manta

[Manta]

Bob,

...but that last one has me stumpped !  what the heck is he saying ?  mutable series cells that are all connected to one power source ?

Connecting plates in series ...  Does this lower the amperage they need to work ?
...
all my cells have been parallel hookup not series !...

Could mean each pair of plates 1 cell) separated from the next in it's own electrolyte and connected like a car battery.  Dropping aproxx 2 volt per cell.

Manta

[Bob]

Just to clarify it a bit...
... the Make up of the Mighty Mite cell is 2 cells in a 2" PVC tube that is an inverted "T"
with the cells on the ends of the horizontal portion of the "T" so they share the same electrolyte... and have to be very small cells to fit inside the 2" O.D. Pipe....
.....(so in reality, its probably a Randy Cell Copy and they use a poor electrolyte!)
...
I think its more like 2 "Randy cells" in series.... it just about has to be !

  Randy and I both tried that and the output is good... in fact I think Randy even tried a inverted "T" configuration like this other fella did... a few years back and used it with good results on his truck.
although he was using 20 amps feeding 2 "Randy Cells" in series I believe his output was right at 2LPM.... with hardly any heat generated at all. 
... because of this we realised that feeding 2 cells with the same amperage as you would one cell, your output is exactly the same... because it devides the amperage between the 2 cells and you wind up with 1/2 the output between both cells, combine the 2 and you get the same output
.... less heat generated is the only gain I can see.
...
although technically, you could Argue the point that less heat is generated even at that !
20 amps being used to generate Hydroxy gas is going to generate 20 amps worth of heat.... its simply disipated faster with 2 cells rather than 1 cell
...
 this Mighty Mite cell  for all its Foo-Fah-Rah is no better than the "Randy Cell" In my opinion....
 ....
 the "Randy Cell" Pound for Pound, is a really good cell...and if built correctly puts out a tremendous amount of hydroxy gas !
  its safe to say, if you build one and don't get 2LPM at 20 amps " You SCREWED UP some where!"
LOL !   (the "Randy Cell" plans, are in the Plans section.)
...
I do Know that Randy made many tests on his cells at lower amperage and they put out good Output at 10 amps.... (1LPM at 10amps)  and at 1/2 to 3/4LPM at 5 amps.... So I just don't think
you can get much better amp to output ratio than that ! ...
 there are REPORTS of such... but when push comes to shove it usually comes down to
the 1LPM @ 10AMP ratio.... no matter WHAT design you use !
...
 Although Randy himself reports a bit better output than I've quoted here... it is quite evident that the "Randy cell" is a very good cell!
...
.... Randy ...Maybe you should Patent your Cell before someone else does !  eh ?  just because its on the internet for free doesn't mean you couldn't pick up ROYALTIES for it ! HAHAHA
...its a thought!

...
Bob....