The Monster Cell Mk2

[Painless]

I finally have all the bits and pieces together that I need to make the Monster Cell Mk2, spent this morning drilling the end (and middle) plates and starting the build.

This is a picture of the plates I'm using, as you can see they come with four holes already drilled, I'm using 1/4" OD nylon tubing to block the lower two holes:



Here are the three inch thick UHMW end and middle plates I'm using with the entry / exit holes already drilled and tapped. The two end plates have barb fittings in the upper portion to allow HHO gas to exit. The centre plate has a hole drilled through the exact middle, with another hole drilled from the top down, connecting it to a barb, this will be the electrolyte entrance:



Here are the two stacks of plates, complete with doubled 0.040" PVC gaskets for a 0.080" cell gap, in a 5 neutral configuration, 50 plates in total. You can see the nylon tubing through the bottom holes, creating a seal:



One of the bolts I'm using to torque the cell together:



I'm hoping to finish the build tomorrow morning and begin testing.  The main change between this and the Mk1 Monster Cell is the larger cell gap, central electrolyte feed and 1" thick UHMW end and middle plates.

Russ.

[Bob]

Russ:
I would take out the plastic hose that you so carefully put in there to allow for better water circulation....or at the very least ...at least one of them...
...
I'ed also take sand paper and clean up the surface of those plates and make them shinnie #80 grit will scratch them up fast  for ya.
...
I like the water inlet idea in the center block.... but I'ed be happier if the hole was at the bottom not in the middle but it should still work....
....
I'ed be happier to see a through connection to all the holes so all the gas can excape from every plate and water can go to each plate  as well.... I doubt there will ever be any problem by using the holes through current leakage...or enough to worry about anyway.

it looks like a very robust cell as long as you have GOOD water curculation and the gas can excape easy
GOOD LUCK ! and please keep us informed on your build!
....
Bob........

[Painless]

I completed putting the cell together today, I went to Lowes yesterday to pick up some hose barbs, but they were out of them. Instead, I decided to try some of the quick release ones. If they don't work out, I can always replace them easily enough later. I do remember Scarecrow and deadpool mentioning that they tried these when working with running the genny on HHO, they did mention some problems if the hoses moved too much to one side.

Here are a few pics of the assembled cell:







Before leaving for work this afternoon, I ran a pressure test. I immersed the cell in a sink full of water, ran a hose from the top inlet to the left-hand gas outlet and ran another hose from the right-hand gas outlet to my air compressor. Bubbles came from between the plate stacks and the end plates at about 10 psi, but I believe that an extra few layers of gaskets each end will fix this issue.

One design decision I did change at build time was to go with 5 neutrals and not the 6 I had planned. The wider cell gap is going to make amp draw more difficult on it's own, without one more neutral hindering more there. I can always add a sixth at a later time.

Hoping to have this on the test bench tomorrow.

Russ.

[Painless]

Bob,

The tubes in the bottom are part of an experiment that I never got to finish before.  I blocked the bottom holes on a dry cell once and got a raise in efficiency, presumably due to current leakage blocking.

It doesn't show well in the photos, but these plates have been used before (in my Monster Cell Mk1, God rest it's soul), I gave them a good thorough cross sanding before using them in this cell.

The centre block has it's hole in the middle, with a connecting tube drilled through up to the barb at the top.  Effectively, electrolyte will pour into the middle of the plates height.  I'm hoping that this middle entrance will encourage the HHO to be pushed away from the middle of the generator, towards the exit barbs.  Again, all theory to be tested.

Russ.

[hydrotinkerer]

interesting

[Bob]

Russ:
 Please take this as trying to help you make a better cell and not belittling all your hard work OK ? !
the way I see it is like this....
you have a great cell there in the configuration, size and hookup... it should work great...except 2 major points... you have a very limited way for the gasses to get out
and very limited way for the electrolite to get in....
what I think will happen is the cell will work real well for a few minutes and then the output will fall off due to the fact that the cell is filling with gas and not electrolite...
I think you will need FLOW....otherwize its going togive ya problems
...
 I could be wrong... but I think your test bench tests will show that.... if so you know what to do !
<GRIN>
...
Bob........

[Painless]

Bob,

Definitely nothing taken any way other than how you meant it, so no worries there. I'm a very open guy who is as keen to share his failures as his successes. Check out my huge thread over on hhoforums.com sometime and you'll see what I mean! :-)

As I said, this is all as much experiment as practical install. Can't discover anything new without being willing to fail.

You can be certain that I'll share all the results, good or bad.

Russ.

[Painless]

My plans to have the new cell running by last Friday were rained on, to say the least. I noticed that my bolts had corroded to the point where the threads had been nearly stripped off of them and were thus no good in their current role. These are the same bolts from the previous cell, so had already been through some hell and stress as well as a soaking in KOH. They aren't SS, I used steel with zinc instead as my Lowes didn't carry the size I needed, plus they were expensive!

I replaced the bolts with new ones and found also that my last remaining end plate leak was due to a scratch on the plastic providing an escape channel. A few minutes and my torch fixed this issue.

The cell was successfully pressure tested up to 20 PSI before hooking her up for a gentle run in on my test bench.

After setting up the cell on my test bench, I proceeded to take a nice afternoon nap in my favourite chair. A couple of hours later, the cell was still bubbling away happily at 77F. The electrolyte was still crystal clear.

Now, with over 24 hours of continuous runtime on it, other than for a 2 minute break when I connected up my digital 10 amp ammeter, she is ticking away at 12 volts and 3.5 amps.

Wanted to share a few things about the new cell that caught my interest:

1) The amp draw is *very* consistent, the biggest window of variation has been between 3.514 and 3.516. This is still low amps, but my cells normally fluctuate current draw by up to an amp even at these low current draws.

2) The electrolyte is crystal clear, not the slightest hint of a yellowish tint.

3) There is no visible whiteness in the HHO gas at all, even in the reservoir, its invisible. Normally, I would always see some white KOH cloud in it.

I definitely attribute 2 & 3 to the wider gaps. As for 1, I'm interested in what will happen at higher amps.

Russ.

[Bob]

Sounds about right Russ !
the KOH won't discolor much till the temp gets high...
and 3.5 amps is just a pittance as you well know... but it should serve some as plate conditioning...
although I discovered that plate conditioning needs to be done at the amps you will run the cell at normially.... to leach out the impurities in the metal...
I seriously doubt you'll leach out much under 10 amps draw... i didn't on mine...I got some but nothing compaired to when I upped it to 15 amps.... then I discovered my 30 amp charger couldn't handle a 15 amp constant draw ! ...oh well
...
I got a Yellow tint to my electrolyte at 20 amps and a very low concentration of KOH to water... like 3 tsp. to a gallon of water and after a time it got darker... not too much though... the real dark stuff started when I made the cell real hot... it turned to dark coffee brown in about 30 min at 30 amps with 2 of my randy cells in parallel...
so I in effect COOKED the KOH.... that also coated the plates  and production went way down!
...
You can celebrate when you get 1LPM at 10 amps or 2LPM at 20amps... and not get over 90 degrees ! <GRIN>
... till then you still dunno what ya got till you work it hard!
good luck and don't leave it hooked up for 20 hrs drawing 20 amps you'll cook it!
hehehehehe and be forced to do an acid cleaning ! hehehe
...
Good luck to ya ! great work so far , keep it up !
...
Bob.....

[Painless]

I've installed the new monster cell mk2 in my truck and have spent most of this week playing with it to see what she can do.  My best result so far was at 57 amps (14.1 volts) achieving an output of 4.2 LPM of HHO at 110 F cell temperature.  This works out to a 5.22 MMW!

I'd also installed a normally open electrical solenoid on the hose from my reservoir to the bubbler, the idea being that when the gen is off the solenoid will open preventing my reservoir from drinking up the contents of the bubbler as it cools down.  Unfortunately, it seems the solenoids hole is still too restrictive and I now have a nice orange foamy mess of water, KOH and denatured alcohol in my reservoir!!!  Looks like someone ordered an orange ice cream soda!!

That was my last batch of KOH, I've ordered some more though and will be back to experimenting as soon as it turns up!

Really pleased with the results so far though.

Russ.

[Bob]

Sounds like a fairly hefty output Russ !  I was hopeing for more like 8LPM but you know how I am ! <GRIN>
...
Have you done any MPG tests with it running yet ? 4.7LPM should be a sizeable chunk out'a the bad gas milage... should get you a bunch better MPG !
...
if I've said it before I'll say it again anyway... getting the generator to work good is only half the battle ...the hardest part is getting todays computerized autos to use it properly !
...
I have been too busy lately to even think about working on the Hydroxy generator... but today I got one major headache out of the way.... HEHEHEHEHE so things are looking up !
...
Bob......

[Painless]

Bob,

My solenoid valve failed to do it's job and the 50/50 distilled water / denatured alcohol mix in my bubbler ended up in my reservoir, ruining my last batch of KOH!    I've ordered some more which should be here in a day or two, along with some stainless steel ball and spring check valves which should stop the bubbler drinking I hope.

Electronics are next, although I already have my own EFIE and MAP circuits built and installed, ready to go.

I've also made myself an HHO torch, completely from Lowes bits... these things are FUN!!!!



Russ.

[Painless]

I had to switch off the monster cell mk2 install in my truck. The cell produced too well for its own good and had pressure issues getting the gas out fast enough.

The absence of bottom holes served well in that they stopped current leakage and stopped gas pressure pushing electrolyte back out of the cell, however, as the gas output paths became inadequate the gases only way out was between the gaskets and plates.

I'm going back to the drawing board to work on improving the HHO's ability to exit the cell.

Russ.

[Bob]

Just bigger holes Russ !
that should cure the problem !
...
Also I doubt gravity flow will be enough pressure to move a check ball in the check valve!
and certainly not enough to depress a spring...
the only way I can see check valves working is with a pump in the system. then it'ed work great.
...
I couldn't figure a way to keep my electrolyte out of the Bubbler ot vise/versa eather , so I simply filled the bubbler with electrolyte and took the check valve out of the line
and allowed it to mix freely...it provides a bit of cooling that way and a reserve to the cell...
...
I forget who came up with it but the FLOODED TERA-CELL Design is the answer for ya Russ !
you in essance have 2 bubblers but on the one connected to the cell its a recurculateing tank
and is used solely as a electrolyte recurculation tank... the output on the top of that tank goes to the true bubbler... and sense its under a slight pressure you can have your checkvalve in line to it
as the HHO forces its way from the recurculation tank to the bubbler and then to the engine
this method has been used many times and I plan to use it on My big cell if I can ever get arround to making it !
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if your having pressure problems in the cell itself I sujest you move to 1/2" to 3/4" or even as big as 1" lines to the cell itself...... 3/4" should cure any problems with pressure no matter how much LPM you produce ! HEHEHEHHEHEH
...
if you look at the INNER Diamator of your fittings that is where your getting a restriction to the flow
go to as big a fitting as you can fit on the plactic... probably 3/8" or 1/2" max and drill out the center of the fitting to give you a bit more opening...
thats what I'ed do !
... I'ed like to see what that cell does with 80 amps going to it ! HAHAHAHHA



Bob.....