So...whatsthe best High output cell to build then ?

[Bob]

 Ok there are hundreds of Designs out there some good some not so good
and most of them work to a certain extent for low outputs say under 5LPM
but if you want 10 to 20 LPM  what do you do ?
I've hurd it said that of you want HIGH OUTPUT you simply make more of the smaller cells and add them up.... but in practice that doesn't work as well as it sounds !
and single large cells capable of putting out 10 to 20LPM are non exhistant , the only cell that I know of that puts out large amounts of Hydroxy gas is Bob Boyces 101 or 56  plate cell
and its anything but simple...and takes a major undertaking to power it.
 Scratches innovation of 2 large cells in the back of his truck, to Me looks very promiceing !
but powering those cells looks to be another problem in itself... although I think that powering Large output devices will require a extra large power source, so that is more or less a given and needs to be expected as part of the deal.
  On one hand I could make 10 randy cells and put them all in separate containers, all flowing through a central recirculating tank... and probably get the output I desire. although its a bunch of pieces, the end results is what I'm after.
 Yet on the other hand I could make large Dry cells and HOPE to get the needed LPM and keep making more of them till the LPM need is met. or add plates and amperage till the LPM amount is reached and still keep it to 1 cell. or even 2 seperate cells
....
both methods should work fine, and the "Randy cell" method is probably a More reasuring method
as I know that cell very well and it does produce well and its easy to get 2LPM from it
it does "Dirty UP" however...or at least mine did, quite badly ! which worries me about reliability, if I put a few hundred bucks into this thing and get it working I want it to KEEP working, not be broke down for a month at a time while I mave to re make new cells.
... and this goes for the Dry cell Type as well, those of you that have Dry cells in use are not running them very hard and that means I would be doing things with them that could be desasterious ! ...I doubt it realy, but there is always the possibility !
so in reality I don't know if you can push a Dry cell HARD , like... feed a 12"x12" 6 plate dry cell with 200amps without causeing a total melt down... even with a Recirculation tank.
I "Think I Can" do that but I'ed hate to find out that 80 amps is the absoulte max I could push through the cell after building it.... that would mean its LPM is completely limited ! even with a Max concentration of electrolyte. which may mean a limit of only 10LPM for the cell
which would mean 2 cells would be needed. and with it the amperage to power it as well.
...
Ya see , the problem is this...the max concentration of KOH to water will naturally limit the amps I can draw in a 12"x12" 6 plate cell... what that is, I have No idea !
so I can't predict weather I can get enough LPM out of a cell like that or even if 2 will do it....
 I can predict that 10 "Randy cells" will work, but its such a hassel !!! but it may well be worth it in the long run...
so I'm STUCK.... in a quandary of which way to go....
any suggestions ?   
 or should I just give up and build a Bob Boyce type cell instead and be done with it ?
...
Bob........

[randy]

Hey Bob, I took them cells I had apart and mounted all 66 washers +_+_+_ect. on stainless all thread, mounted it in 4" ABS two holes with all thread ends sticking out, the cell it's self, held the thing together, I only temporarly sealed the thing with silicone sealer, my main objective was to see if I could pull a bunch of amps with it, well it will. no problems with current leakage because it's only 1 unit. didn't measure it but the 4" ABS is only 12" long, interesting find though, powered it from one end and got the amps up to 20 cold. then I powered it from both ends, the amps went up to 30, seems there must be a lot of resistance in the stainless, I didn't measure but the output looked very good, tore it back down and am adding more washers, I think I can just keep adding till I get tired of it, then push amps at it till I get the output I want. We'll see. From now on I'm only using K_aid and distilled. I for the first time buried the amps with this build and it only took 11 packets pulling over 60 amps.

[Bob]

KOOL Randy ! thats a great experiment !...on close spaced plates like the Randy cell or even with the standard Dry cell, More plates allow the pulling of more amps...
66 washers thats probly going to make a cell about 6" to 8" long Uh ?  still small even at that!  HAHAHAHAHA
....
I think you have the right idea there buddy and if you can make it One Cell instead of many
your up-keep is far simplier ! you can alwayse have another one just like it as a spare, sitting on the bench waiting to be thrown in the truck if the one in use dies or needs worked on for some reason !
...60amps is getting there bud ! that should equate to 6LPM if you got it working good, but that would take tuneing the cell to the amps... not just arbituarily throwing 120 amps at the cell and see if ya get 20LPM.... best to throw 120 amps at it and add or subtract say 4 plates and see if the LPM goes up or down... you know the Routine ! <GRIN>
only by tuneing the cell to the available amps will you achieve the max output "per amp used" possable....
then once you get that tuned in let us know ! I bet you'll be able to get more than 10:1 ratio if you tune it realy good !
....
I have to admit that is a very good idea you have there Randy.... I hope it allows you to draw say 100 amps and gives ya 10LPM ! that would indeed be a breakthrough !
please keep us informed !
....
Bob......

[hg2]

  I think running that kind of amperage using a platesinnadip(or washersinnadip in this case)cell is only going to be a recipe for the Chernobyl effect,at least if left running for a length of time.



  This is my opinion there are others like it but this one is mine!!!!!!!     HEHEHEH

[randy]

Ahh, but that's the point, I've already proven "to myself" that the heat can be controlled with amps, more plates + less amps = less heat, sure I'll lose some output but heat is the issue that's got me doing this experiment, if I have enough plates I should be able to control the heat with the amount of amps I draw and still have a fairly good output.

[hg2]

  This is true more plates=less amps and less heat along with less output,we're still bound by the voltage per plate efficiency curse no matter how you stir it.

[janmarsh]

Randy,
          Would Copper studding be worth consideration  (Understanding no copper is making contact with liquid)........  or additional intermediate power supply to studding by way of terminals also at sides of pipe  through to adjacent studding ?  

Lots of eleven plates could be assembled (Visible studding each end ) , coupled together in whatever number , side terminals being made to these coupling points.

Thermal expansion of studding would have to be considered as length increases.

                                                                                                          Marshall.

[randy]

Don't know about studding but I've thought about welding additional terminals mid cell, my thought was to weld nuts to the side of other nuts, then with a properly drilled hole in container screw studs into the nuts for additional power introduction, since the whole thing is on common all thread studs there'd be no problem with the spacing in the cell.

[janmarsh]

I see what you mean.  I have thermal expansion on the brain, maybe unduly.  You would have a fairly rigid Assembly with side studding.

[Bob]

Ok...
 IF and ONLY if, with a bunch of plates  "in a dip" (as Hg2 calls it) you can achieve a 100amp draw
(the chances of that are slim at best, it will be more like 80amp max) ...you might get a realy good LPM reading.... BUT you will no doubt have heat...
 
Randy you are trying to eliminate heat by adding more plates, adding more plates Demands more amps for production....if you don't give the amps to the cell and keep the amps low  the heat won't be there... you are correct...but neither will be the production...there is a berrior that you must reach where it will go from 1/4LPM  to over 4LPM with very little change in amperage, that would be the arangement you are looking for , the most output for the least heat produced.
.... finding that sweet-spot will take experimention, and probably allot of it !
...
in one of my experiments here with the "Randy Cell" I slowly changed the concentration of the electrolyte while getting the LPM readings.... I went from 1/4LPM to 1.75LPM with very little change
in electrolyte increase, but going higher than that took allot of electrolyte to finally get 2LPM
...so what that tells us is that at the 1.5 to 1.75LPM is the optimum airea for the cell for minimum heat...
So tuning your big cell in the same manor should equate into the same idea of optimum output for minimum heat.... pushing it beyond that would yield more output at the expense of much more heat!
...
I tuned my cell by slowly adding KOH 1 tsp at a time while the cell was running and watching the amp guage raise... when I got to the point I added a teaspoon and the change slowed way down that was the point of the larger LPM reading (1.75LPM)  I had to add something like 5 tsp of KOH to get the last 1/4LPM in order to get 2LPM... ..
so in theory add Koolaid till the amp guage slows down, and stop adding ! no matter where it is on the amp guage... if your pulling 40 amps or 60 amps, that SHOULD be the optimum electrolyte concentration
for the LPM verses heat.... granted you can still get more LPM out of the cell at that point but your heat will realy go up in compairison.
...
I really doubt you'll have a Chernobyl effect in the cell Hg2 because of 100amps <GRIN> boiling the water YES no doubt.... but that is why you'ed need a recurculation system to keep it cool.
and cooling a 100amp cell down will be a challenge to do...no doubt...
but getting HIGH OUTPUT out of hydroxy cells is going to take High amps and heat will be a direct result from the work being done ! .... there is no way around it !
....
on the other hand, where Randy is trying to minimize heat at the cost of LPM output and still trying to get SOME output in the bargin,
 I feel that going whole hog and feeding the cell all I can , to hell with the heat and get as much LPM out of the cell as possable, and THEN cool down the cell is the answer....
....
 there is a billion diferent ways of going about this, and who is to say one way is better than the next ?.... certainly not me ! <GRIN>
..
what ever works ! Go for it Randy !
....
Bob.......