Using Muric Acid to clean your cell!

[Bob]

Howdy All !
well I followed Candymans advice and bought some Muric acid to clean out my cell with
... well I think I may have over done it just a bit...
I flushed the cell with the garden hose and did that a few times ... then syphoned it dry as best I could....
added Stright Muric Acid to over the top cell  by about 1" so all the cells were covered in 100% muric acid... I added just a squirt of water to the stuff so it probly wound up being about a 95% soulution of Muric Acid and water....
I then set my stop watch and checked it every so often.... after 30 minutes I desided I'ed better get that stuff out'a there and syphoned it out and flushed it with water 2 or 3 times
and after the flushing it was very shinnie once again... but prior to the flushing it looked just as it had.... with every other plate looking like it was gold anodized...
so the flushing with the nozzle must have realy knocked the stuff loose...
...infact I would not have left it in so long if it looked like it was cleaning it...but it didn't look any diferent .... well looks are decieveing and after I flushed it out it realy was clean once again..... (so I left the soulution in there for a very long time indeed...perhaps TOO LONG !)
so I syphoned out the garden hose water and put in distilled water fired up the truck and turned it on with my rolaid bittle full of KOH at hand to add what ever it needed to get the amps up to 15 amps once again...  BUT !
..... But I got to the front of the truck and the engine sped up a bit and I think I hurd the breaker trip... and looking at the amp meter that was the case no amps at all....
I thought well ok I guess it needs some KOH and then I hurd a snap and the amp meter swong to the pegged position and set there for a second and the Hydroxy generator sprung to life putting out more Hydroxy gas than Iever saw it put out before and SNAP off went the circuit breaker once again!.....
I put up the KOH and scratched my head... closed the hood and turned off the engine and walked away....  that ain't RIGHT !
it can't possably be pulling over 30 amps on stright water can it ? they are in parallel which usually means it takes much less KOH to operate  but NONE ?
so I figured I must have ate away an insulator or something so I tried a continuity test and its got 27kohms between each of the 2 posts on each cell... their wet I'ed expect some continuity.... but NO direct short....
... I'm thinking that the Muric Acid cleaned the plates better than they ever were before...
and I need to go back to series hookup  in order to control the amp draw !
... if this is truly the case then fooie on conditioning plates by run in time give them a Muric Acid bath and be done with it !
....
ANY COMMENTS PLEASE !
...
Bob.......

[Tink]

Bob,
Sounds like what happened to me when I fried my PWM. I had followed someones advise and ran the Smack booster with 1/2 muratic acid and 1/2 distilled water. This only after a few seconds pegged my ameter and fried my pwm. I got nasty brown stuff almost like coffee grounds and took me many rinsings to get that out of the cell. I think I shorted the cell out. It blew my 30amp fuse too. Now this one does perform better than the other smack booster I didn't do that with. Now I just let the cell sit in a solution of 1/2 muratic acid and 1/2 distilled water for 15 minutes and rinse with distilled water and then put into use. I do this to get fingerprints off the plates and any other residue from drilling and such. This seams safe and does help condition the plates.
for what it is worth,
Tink

[Bob]

Yah Tink...Sorry about that I think it was me that advised ya on how to use the PWM at the time
although I had no idea the amprage would be THAT HIGH !!!!...OOOPS !
thanks for your info... I am fairly certain just re wireing my cell back to A Series connection will make it useable again....
  I had NO IDEA the cells were that dirty ! ...no wonder the production was low !
HAHAHAHA
live and learn I guess !

Bob........

[Bob]

As I suspected !
I re wired the cell back to Series configuration... fired it up and it was drawing about 5 amps is all
in that config... so I added KOH to the distilled water till I got to about 14.75 amps and left it at that sense the unit was still quite cold....
before I started adding the KOH it was clear water all the way to the bottom, no color at all in it.
as I was adding the KOH I noticed the water change to a coffee brown and some goo starting to form
I hope this is not a pre cursor of what I just went through ! ... if so I will chuck the KOH and go with Lemonaid from now on ...at least it stayed clear...with no goo and only a slight tint of yellow...
...
perhaps the KOH is reacting with the reminants of the Muric Acid I dunno because you can never flush out All the traces of an acid.... it gets into the pours of the meterial... part of the reason I was reluctant to use Muric Acid in the first place... but it showed me that My plates were very dirty from day 1 even with the wire wheeling I gave them all.
so I am convinced that the Muric Acid helped a great deal...
...
the output looks fairly good for only 15 amps.... probly about 3/4 to 1LPM for all 3 cells in series
that will improve probly at least Double maybe tripple when it warms up and draws 30 amps.( at least I hope it will ! <GRIN>)
....
Just thought I'ed let ya know.
Bob.......

[candyman55]

Bob,
Run your cell for a while heat it up good, then dump the electrolyte and start again it should clear up and be almost clear. Mine usually stays a light amber color but no goo. Put your used electrolyte in the freezer and see if it will freeze.  could be a break through if it don't freeze 

[randy]

OK OK OK where the heck do I get muric acid, sounds easier and quicker then tearing down my cells, the lemon koolaid worked flawlessly until I added the denatured alcohol. strange I don't see any goo in the thing fluid still looks pretty green, smells good too, getting thirsty, heading for the fridge.

[Bob]

Randy :
  I picked mine up at Lowes Hardware...Highest place in town for most stuff, but they were close by!
heheheheh and I'm lazy !
 I got a box containing 2 gal jugs for $8.98 or there abouts !
...
I ran to town expecting to see the amp draw shoot up when I opened the hood in Redding... the amp guage still was reading 15 amps !!!!!! so I came home and then opened the hood... it read 16 amps....
eather its down right cold out there, or something else has happened ...
anyway I guess I'll go check and see if It made any GOO....
i forgot to check that ...
back in a sec....
Bob.......

[candyman55]

Randy,
Muratic Acid (bob can't spell) is used for cleaning bricks, block, concrete and pools. Try a pool or plumbing supply store. Be careful even the fumes will make steel rust. If you use it full strength when you are finished just funnel it back into the jug. It won't hurt stainless or plastic (I think that's why they put it in a plastic jug)  Oh and one more thing DO NOT mix it with KOH make sure you rinse your cell good.

[Bob]

HAHAHA Your Right Candyman ! I KANT SPEEL WORTH SHIP !
but thats ok cuz I don't care...as long as I'm understood  I could care less how yaz spelz it!
hehehehehe ( my rebelious youth showing still!)
...
any hoo I just checked the Hydroxy generator in the truck  its pulling exactly 20 amps
not 16 one mark means 5 amps ...ooops !  any from 14 cold to 20 hot isn't that far off is it Randy ?
...
the electrolite looked good... no goo at all and Pee yellow in color... couldn't see the top cell cuz of all the bubbles and thats a good sign.... so it looks to be produceing fairly well even if its only got 20 amps going to it !
... I might try a 1/4teaspoon more of KOH just to get the extra 5 amps but I have a feeling if I do it will draw too much when its actually warm outside ! HAHAHHA!
...
..
Randy I've seen that Muriciatciac Acid stuff even in grocery stores for spa's and pools, looks like a jug of lemonaid but has skulls and cross bones on it fer some reason ! <GRIN>
...I syphoned it out on the ground.... Yes I know, not a good idea, but I have no other place to put it.... it started bubbleing and desolveing the PINE NEEDLES !!!! its mean stuff, I didn't get any on me and don't plan to eather !
...
so all in all I'ed say it is a success it cleaned up the cell in no-time and it seams to be running clean now...but time will tell !
...
Thanks Candyman for that helpfull bit of info... you have no idea how much work you saved me !
all 3 of those Randy cells were going to have to come appart and be cleaned on the wire wheel
and then re installed in the container... a good 4 days stright work !
... thank you very much !
....
Bob........




 

[randy]

for each 3 cells I have I get 2+ LPM at 21-22 amps, that's with only one insulator in each position, I remember trying 2 insulators back when I had the shorting problem using baking soda and sodium hydroxide, it didn't help, so I went back to the cloooose spacing of one insulator, the k-aid and distilled hasn't had any problems, the test cell I was running with the KOH frosted up and dropped in output I ran it in k-aid and distilled in a coffee cup for a while and reversed polarity and ran a while again, cleaned the frosting right up, still gonna look into that muratic acid though, it might well work as an electrolyte, who knows, anything that keeps em clean is a winner in my book, by the way Bob, since ya already have some of the stuff try freezing some will ya.
Randy

[Bob]

Ummm DUH never thought of that Randy OK will do I got a small plastic bottle I'll fill and throw into the freezer... REMIND me to check it tomarrow ! HAHAHHAHAHA
....
Bob.......

[Tink]

Randy,
First, my 1 and 1/4 tespoon soultion of KOH and distilled water did freeze quite hard at 5 degrees overnite in the freezer. It even got ice on the plates in my truck at 19 degrees the other nite.
Second, when I ran 1/2 muratic acid and 1/2 distilled water in my cell it shorted out my cell and fried a 30 amp fuse and blew my PWM. That was without any KOH in the solution. And took me many rinsings and cleanings to get rid of the coffee ground type stuff it left on the cell and wound up at the bottom of the container. But that cell actually produces more gas now than the other one I didn't do that with.
For what it's worth,
Tink

[candyman55]

Randy,

 I don't think that it would be a good idea to use as electrolyte. It's much more corrosive than KOH. And I doubt that it will freeze. I know that if you mix enough KOH with water it won't freeze. I am just not sure what the least amount you can use and not freeze is.

[randy]

from the different things I've tried I'm thinking that distilled white vinegar and k-aid mix may be the solution, I'll mix different ratio's of vinegar and water in cups and see where it doesn't freeze, then I'll have to run that mixture in a test cell and find out if it kills the antifreeze properties with use, we'll see
Randy

[Bob]

I know we used desolved rock salt to put in large tractor tires At Vista tractor and equipment
when I worked there many years ago... they did that so the tires wouldn't freeze... a smart move on a big tractor left out in the weather over there !
...but we can't use salt or any of its forms because of the GOO problem
I have some Muratic Acid in the freezer right now , just to see if it freezes.... been in there a good 6 hrs now.... letme check it...Nope it is NOT frozen yet...still very much liquid!
not even the slightest crystals forming.... looks very good against freezeing !...
.... but I don't think I want to split that stuff appart it could be worse than "FALL-OUT"
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
....
just get a Bottle of Bacardi 151 and pour about 1/2 of it in there !  that should do it !
HAHAHAHHAHA
....but then again...if I had a bottle of Bacardi 151 I would NOT waste it on anti-freezing a cell ! ....<GRIN>
...
hehehe
Bob......

Personally I'm thinking the blue windshield washer antifreeze/bug cleaner in the cell might work ...
I think anything we use, we will in advertantly destroy its antifreeze properties just by running the cell....the heat should evaporite the alchol in it and render it useless
...
so wrap the cell in a heating pad and plug it in at night !
hehehehe
...
park the car in a heated garadge ?
( wish I had one!)
...
pull the car real close up to the side of the house where the dryier vent is and run the dryer all night !
... only cost ya an extra $250 a month fer a warm car !
HAHAHAHA
...
Bob......