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hg2
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2009, 07:18:21 pm » |
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RoadKing I know what you mean there,once you're butt-deep in it there's no turning back.I do envy you because I lack the necessary electronics background to attempt a project this complicated.I've read pdfs and Boyce's posts on the Water Fuel Cell forum(before he asked they be deleted following the death of his daughter)until I was crosseyed LOL.The schematics are too much for someone with no electronics background to attempt.
I can't believe the deal you got on the toroidal coil for $380 that's great.Did you buy a 6.5 like the one Boyce used or smaller?Most of the pdfs I've read said they could run a couple thousand(inclding having someone wind it),that's one thing that discouraged me the most,and of course the cost of all the 316L LOL.
Good luck with the build and of course keep us all posted on your progress.
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ROADKING
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2009, 09:50:32 am » |
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Well, I have no knowledge of electronics either, in fact I had some people to come in my shop and tell me they knew how to build pwms ect. I asked them to build me one, offer to pay in advance and beleive this or not they have not been back in since, and they were coming in every 2 or three days now they do not bother me at all......lol. which may be a good thing. I have got a friend who is in this with me who owns a machine shop and is very good at what he does. He has found us a ss suppllier who will laser cut the ss at a reasonable price. But in the end we have still spent a lot of money if you know what i mean, and really no where yet. So I guess we will keep trying and see where it goes. We have built I would guess 24 different cells and we ussually try every one that someone suggest on this web site, So far the best I have built was the wet cell, I put 13 2x3 plates for one cell and parrallel 5 of them in the same bath, it produced well but not what we wanted, mad a torch out of it blowed it up 3 times befor it started working..lol. Today we are making the bubblers for the big cell and then we will start the wiring process and see what we can make it produce off of a bridge rectifier at 220 volts at start of 30 amps and go from there, I will keep you informed of my progress on that.
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hg2
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2009, 05:24:44 pm » |
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Roadking you didn't mention where you got your iron powder core.I looked into buying one last year and the site I found them on had a laundry list of questions regarding why I wanted to buy one.
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ROADKING
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2009, 09:12:10 am » |
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Micrometals is who i spoke to, and they cost @ $50.00 and that is a 61/2 in outside diameter. Plus shipping, I think from California.
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hg2
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 12:58:49 pm » |
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Yep the T650-52 that's the correct one to use.Do you also have the sources for the correct winding tape and the solid teflon-coated silver plated copper wire.The winding tape is especially important because using the wrong winding tape can cause the secondary winding to reverse polarity which will reduce the signal amplitude and suppress the acoustoresonance response.Whatever you do don't use fiberglass winding tape,or the entire coil will have to be rewrapped.
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Manta
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 01:14:37 pm » |
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...The winding tape is especially important because using the wrong winding tape can cause the secondary winding to reverse polarity...
Could you explain just how it does that ?
Manta
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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ROADKING
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2009, 01:50:26 pm » |
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APEXJR.COM On their web site they have the wiring kit and I think it was call Bouce's car kit.
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hg2
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2009, 03:39:50 pm » |
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...The winding tape is especially important because using the wrong winding tape can cause the secondary winding to reverse polarity...
Could you explain just how it does that ?
Manta
They say it causes eltrostactic pulse response to reverse polarity to the secondary windings.It's not really known why it causes this,possibly because the secondary windings are single phase where as the primary windings are 3 phase.Bob Boyce himself said he wasn't sure why this phenomenon occurs.One thing he was sure of though is that using the fiberglass winding tape is what caused it. These are some of the problems you can run into if you've never built one.Another big mistake made is not making sure your windings go counterclockwise,there's a long list of do's and don'ts when building a toroidal coil.If not done precisely all your time and money was for nought. |
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 04:26:05 pm by hg2 »
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hg2
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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2009, 03:51:51 pm » |
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APEXJR.COM On their web site they have the wiring kit and I think it was call Bouce's car kit.
Roadking are you sure the wiring kit listed on APEXJR.COM is adaquete for wiring a 6.5" core?The one Boyce built specifies using only solid 16 ga. teflon-covered silver plated copper wire.Most of the toroids listed on that site (that I saw) were half the size of the one you're building. |
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ROADKING
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2009, 05:39:05 pm » |
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They have the correct wire for the Bob Boyce cell, I think they called it the Bob Boyce car kit
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hg2
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« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2009, 06:46:19 pm » |
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They have the correct wire for the Bob Boyce cell, I think they called it the Bob Boyce car kit
I went back to the site and found it.I was looking for the wire where the coils were listed(duuuh).At $0.48 per ft I guess you'll need almost a $100.00 worth to wind it.The secondary alone takes over 100 ft and with the primarys going over them you may need more than 200 ft.,it that about the same figure you have? |
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ROADKING
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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2009, 06:58:50 pm » |
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Yes, but, I think (not sure) that the primary legs were of smaller and a different wire, I will have to read my instructions from the Bob Boyce files. Which you probably have. I am not going to build the first one I am purchasing it at $380.00. The Core was going to cost $50.00, $15.00 for shipping, Guessing another $150.00 for wiring, $50.00 for tape $25.00 bees wax, and a whole lot of tedious work, this is my estimate, so I spoke to a person building the coils, and now he has supposedly sent to Bob Boyce for testing and when he gets the OK on them he is to send me one with the pwm and schematics so I can continue.
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hg2
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2009, 09:00:51 pm » |
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I totally agree,why suffer with building one when you can get one ready to go for $380.There are some things that just don't pay to DIY HAHA.
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ROADKING
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« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2009, 05:48:02 pm » |
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OK, here is the problem for today, I just hook up this cell to 220dc volts, it pulled no amps to start, then it got up .6 yes 6 tenths of an amp and appeared to be making hho, this was with positive at one end and neg at the other leaving 99 neutral plates. I then wired it up with 3 positive and 4 negatives has I have terminals on this where I can wire in about any configuration. It the went to 30 amps, so then I tried the two end plates as positive and the rest of the 99 plates as negs, and it is now boiling water, I have experienced in the past once you boil water you have to start over for it acts as a dead short. So now I am about to start over and go with new water and 1 positive 99 neutrals, and one negative, I will let you know how this works then. All of your input will be greatly appreciated. And this is with pure distilled water supposedly that I bought at Kroger,
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Bob
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2009, 06:16:37 pm » |
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Very Interesting !
30amps with just distilled water( no KOH/electrolyte) is saying something indeed !
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I don't know what to say about the boiling water... other than it doesn't sound right !
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I would have thought you would hook up the cell with a max concentration of electrolyte
and use a PWM to control the amperage, that way reducing heat in the resistance in the water to as low as you can get it. reducing your chance of boiling the water.
but if you don't have a PWM then all you can do is adjust the electrolyte to control the amp draw...OR play with different plate configurations, as you saw , you can change the amp draw by
hooking up the plates in different ways.
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even if your output from each plate looks quite low... you still stand a good chance of having a great output per amp used because of the available plate area...
finding the combonation of right hookups is more than likely the key to getting the most out of that cell...
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to reduce heat you need to reduce the resistance in the water, doing that will make it nessarry to use a PWM.
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I think if you can get 3LPM from 30 amps you'll be doing great... and that is probly the best you will get... simply because the 10amps per 1 LPM that we alwayse run accross in this game
...However unlike other cells that cell will be able to handle HUGE amounts of amperage
and yeld you very large outputs..
I feel that to expect large outputs on low amperage is asking too much, it takes the bigger power raitings to make the bigger outputs.
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BE CAREFULL what your playing with is "Dangerous" one false move could electrocute your butt
keep one hand in your Pocket when that thing is ON !
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good luck !
and please keep us informed
.....
Bob......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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