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Bob
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« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2008, 08:17:45 pm » |
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Howdy Ed and welcome !
Personally I don't think it will help much , it might a small amount... the reason they are in the same container in the first place is they worked just as good 2 in one container as they did in seperate containers !, that was already tried and it made very little diference.
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my major problem is simply fighting not getting enough amprage to the cells... if I had 80 amps to throw at the 3 cells in series I know for a fact I'ed get 3LPM each... but I don't have that kind of amprage to play with ! ...unfortionately...
when I get another big altenator then I will , but till that point I am rather stuck with the low output i think !
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Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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randy
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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2008, 09:02:29 pm » |
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no it didn't seem to make any difference, I wired three cells in series, each in a coffee cup, each had electrolyte adjusted individually to pull 20 amps, when wired series they would only pull 6.333 amps, had to increase electrolyte exponentally to get up to 20 amp draw, when I finally got them there I tested one cell again, it pulled 60 amps momentarily before blowing the fluid from the cup.
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Justin Frye
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« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2008, 10:01:24 pm » |
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even if you are capable of putting that much amperage in to the cells how are you going to be able to house them and put current through them without burning upthe capsule they are in like where the connection bolts come out of the cell. im referencing a pvc type container. it simply will not hold up to the heat.
-justin
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randy
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2008, 10:11:53 pm » |
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that's why I run them the way I do, 3 washer cells wired in series pulling 20 amps hot, barely reaches 100 deg, I've got two of those triplets running, starts out dead cold pulling 20 amps putting a little better then 2 LPM, about 30-45 minutes their pulling a combined 40 amps putting out a little better then 4 LPM
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Bob
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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2008, 10:13:42 pm » |
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Thats My point Randy ! you hit it dead on !
3 cells pulling 20 amps is 60amps total
2 cells pulling 20 amps is 40 amps total
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thats why I un wired one cell because I don't have enough to run all 3 cells at once
I don't even have enough to run 2 but I am fakeing it ! HAHAHHAHAHAHHA
so I am running 2 cells at 15 amps each in hopes of getting more output than 3 cells with less amprage each... less is more in this case.
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I don't know weather 1 cell at 30 amps is better than 2 cells at 30 amps but I expect it is!
as far as output is concerned...
but thats what I'm on about lately down here....
seams I have 3 cells in the truck but only have the amprage to power 1 cell...
that is not only silly but wastfull too...
powering all 3 gives me less than I would get powering 1 cell alone
...which raises the question... how far does this go ? will I get more output from one cell at 80 amps than 4 cells at 80 amps ? thats unlikely, but where is the devideing line at ?
at what point do we say thats enough amprage for 1 cell and need to install another cell ?
when the water boils ? ...hardly scientific but a good starting place I suppose !
so again 1 cell handles 20 amps without boiling the water but any more amprage say 30 amps will get it to the boiling point if I remember correctly... so in order to lower the temp we need to limit each cell to 20~25 amps... so 2 cells would need 40~50 amps 3 cells 60~75amps
...working backwards from that, there is no sense in trying to run 3 cells on less than optimum amprage your output will be less because of it....
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whats your view on that Randy ? am I right ...or all wet ?
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Bob......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Justin Frye
Newbie
Posts: 46
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« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2008, 10:37:48 pm » |
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what im meaning is i had a cell blow up because i wasnt watching the heat close enough. the actuall water and cell wasnt getting that hot but the connections bolts running in to the top of the lid got hot. melting the lid and grounding causing ignition. can anyone shed some light on this? honestly i went and got a bunch of washers and are going to try and build a randy cell tomorrow if i get the time and the o-rings or grommets. it seems my cell i have now is putting out fairly descent at 1lpm but it gets hot way to quickly. i guess i need to go ahead and order some koh as well. heard nothing but good stuff about it. plus me and a buddy is also experimenting with bio deisel and need the same stuff. just to let you guys know that i am only 20 years old. i see that most of you guys are older. i just want to let you know that just because im young and dumb doesnt mean i dont care about the cause. haha when i talk to people about it when im getting supplies there jaws drop i guess because its explosive gas from water and im so young and am doing what im doing. i just want you guys to know everything im reading is just inspiring me more and more and this is really addicting and i think about it all the time. anyway i can get some of the heat out of my cell right now? 13 plate 2.5"x6" +-+-+- design. using salt as my electrolight with 1/8" nylon spacers.
-justin
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Bob
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« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2008, 10:46:09 pm » |
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Justin:
I am planning on feeding my 3 cells 60 amps.... yes your right in your assumption that 60 amps may well melt the cases if only one cell is used... but if the amprage is spred out evenly in a series connection it should be equivelent to 20 amps per cell which should net me 6LPM from the unit
...and Not melt the ABS Pipeing eather... more amps than that ...just might!
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Randy is being Cautious ! he has put a great deal of time and effort into building 6 cells and the big container that houses them...I am sure he does not want to melt a hole in it by accident !
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6 cells to get 4LPM isn't all that great we all know that , so does Randy ! but he has the capability to get 12LPM from that arrangement if the heat doesn't get him...
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Randy what are you getting in MPG now with that 4LPM setup ?
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On your HOT cell.... try reduceing plate number to 11 plates (Randy and I have found that to be a good number, but it depends totally upon plate size and amprage used)...so reduce the plate count test and reduce plate count testing at each step to find the number of plates that make the max amount of gas output
this works very well for zeroing in on a given plate number ...its slow and tedious but works
you will need to set the electrolite each time you remove plates too... but its part of the game !
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Bob........
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Justin Frye
Newbie
Posts: 46
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« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2008, 10:49:41 pm » |
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how exactly do i set the electrolite? ive kind of just been adding some until i see good production.
-justin
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Bob
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« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2008, 10:58:31 pm » |
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Well, I am assumeing that you don't have an amp meter hooked to it eather...
but you can probly watch the amp meter on the charger, its a fair indicator of the amp draw...
... ofcorse you know salt is realy bad as it will coat the plates amd make green goo all over the water ...
but...
heres how ya set it.
with fresh water no electrolite/salt in the water at all...
hook up the cell and look at the meter to see how many amps its drawing... should be very low
sprinkle in some electrolite and wait the change is not imediate...it takes a few minutes sometimes
...as the conductivity of the water increases the amprage will increase and the meter will start riseing adjust to say 10 amps for test purposes or 20 if that is the target amprage you want the cell to run at....
thats all there is to it ...just add electrolite till you get the reading ya want...
too much and ya gott'a start over !...(flush it out and fry again!)
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Hope that helps !
Bob.........
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Justin Frye
Newbie
Posts: 46
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« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2008, 11:07:26 pm » |
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that sounds easy enough. im kind of in a fund crunch at the moment so the amp meter will have to wait a lil while longer. another problem im having is sealing my lid. i cant get it to seal for anyting. ive tried everyting i can think of besides making it permanent. i dont wanna do that until i have a nice working safe setup. how exactly are you guys using the o-ring/grommet for the randy cells? im goin tomorrow and see if i can find some to use. are you using o-rings and wedging them in or actuall grommets? whats the size i need to be looking for?
-justin
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Bob
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2008, 01:25:15 am » |
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I used 1/4" vinal tubeing... you know the kind everyone used to use on their motorcycles <GRIN>
its outside diamator is exactly 3/8" so I simply cut 1/16" thin donuts from it with me pocket knife
....I think Randy cheeted and bought his from the hardware store ! HAHAHAHAHA
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they slide down the 1/4" bolt well and fit snuggly into the larger of the 2 holes in the big washer
with a nilon insulator above and below it it works great for keeping the plate insulated from the bolt
on the one side.
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on the sealing of the lid I have a 4" ABS sewer pipe as a container with a cap glued on the bottom (use ample glue and twist it as you put it on) on the top I have a 4" to 2" reducer bell fitting blued to the 4" pipe and then a 2" self expanding plug (red) they seal water pipes with these all the time so its perfect for the job... cost about $2.98 or so... a small can of glue 2 fittings and the pipe as well as the 2" self expanding plug should not cost you more than $15.00 to $20 bucks
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Bob......
Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Manta
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2008, 07:04:33 am » |
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Randy,
re,
..barely reaches 100 deg,...
Can I take it that you guys are using Farenheit as standard on this site, not Centigrade (as I am more ued to, but can work in either)
Manta
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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randy
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« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2008, 10:29:19 am » |
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yep Farenheit
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Justin Frye
Newbie
Posts: 46
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« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2008, 05:06:48 pm » |
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well i built me a randy cell today and dont think i have the spacing quite as close as you guys due to the nylon washers i had available but seems to be producing about 1.75 lpm. this is untested just goin off looks of my old cells. ran it for about an hour in a pickle jar full of water and with the cell half way down in the jar the top water got around 160 degrees after an hour and the lower portion of water was around 80. need to get some koh cuz the salt is killing it. lol. overall suprised and happy with the cell. ran it with a 50 amp charger for the hour and never kicked the charger so not sure what the amps was on it. anybody else having problems with the water getting that hot? dont want to be making steam.
-justin
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Bob
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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2008, 08:11:01 pm » |
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Why not ? steam ain't gunn'a hurt a thing sept maybe help cool the valves a bit...
I ran a WATER injector for a long time with no ill effects so steam certainly isn't going to hurt anything.... it just means you'll have to fill the container more often ! <GRIN>
...but I agree I don't like them to run hot... it melts the plastic !
so a large as possable container to house it in is the way to go... my container holds a gallon and gets warm running 2 cells in parallel at 30 amps.... I think it might have gotten warm enough to melt the pop off cap though on the way home ... if so I may have to go with a recurculateing system.
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Bob........
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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