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« Reply #270 on: January 06, 2009, 06:27:24 am » |
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Bob,
there is an error when I try to get to the 'Mom's Battle' thread.
I hope she is doing alright.
Tink
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Old Tink proberb: Don't hesitate, just do it!
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Feral
Sugar and Spice
Administrator
Newbie
Posts: 37
Voof!
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« Reply #271 on: January 06, 2009, 07:25:12 am » |
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there is an error when I try to get to the 'Mom's Battle' thread. Just to clarify and explain, I expect Father sent out the mentioned email before we split this thread up; The initial topic he would have linked to ended up being deleted and the tail end of this thread reformed in it's place. But the details aside things should be functioning as they should be, for what that is worth. |
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"Fall seven times, stand up eight." ~ Japanese Proverb
"Do, or do not. There is no try." ~ Yoda
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Bob
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« Reply #272 on: January 06, 2009, 08:03:19 pm » |
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its in the general discussion section Tink.... just look there "Manually" you'll find it ! HAHAHA
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Bob......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Justin Frye
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Posts: 46
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« Reply #273 on: January 11, 2009, 08:17:56 pm » |
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welp guys im back and hoping to get back in the build and experimenting. ive been working alot of overtime and holidays and stuff and just havent had time to do anything at all. glad to see everybody has still been hard at this and in the quest to figure everything out.
-justin
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Bob
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« Reply #274 on: January 11, 2009, 10:49:20 pm » |
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Welcome back Justin !
been wondering about you lately, guess you've been a busy boy lately ! <GRIN>
good too see you havn't forgotten us here !
... get that cell on the car and see how much MPG ya get !
...hehehehe
Bob...
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Justin Frye
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Posts: 46
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« Reply #275 on: January 13, 2009, 07:55:07 am » |
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haha im far from doing anything like that. im pretty much at the same spot i left off at. with a randy cell that doesnt put out anything. haha need to tear it back apart and see what is so wrong with mine that im getting such poor output.
-justin
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Tink
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« Reply #276 on: January 13, 2009, 11:21:57 pm » |
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Justin,
I'm tearing my Randy Cell apart too. It stoped producing and I noticed it was showing resistance between the terminals. I had it working, don't know what happened. I'm rebuilding it. I may not be precise enough in my worksmanship.
Tink
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Old Tink proberb: Don't hesitate, just do it!
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Bob
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« Reply #277 on: January 14, 2009, 03:23:28 am » |
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Well Boys it took me about 3 tries before I got one that worked even close to Randy's units!
then I made 2 more just like it while it was fresh in my head so I wound up with 3 that worked great... but it was not easy I thnk the major reason my cells were so dificult was becaused I used vinal hose for the "O" rings and just sliced off thin sections with my pocket-knife... that is very inacurrate and made some thick and some thin "O"Rings which made me have to realy torque down on the nuts to get the proper plate spaceing... and if you torque down too much you'll cut through the thin nilon insulators, if I were to do it again I would go buy the 1/4" "O"rings !
when I finally discovered how to make my nilon insulators assembly was then a snap...
I used a paper punch and made 1" squares with a hole in the center and stacked about 200 of them on a bolt and with a washer at each end snugged the nut down, then after dawning on the eye protection I rounded the squares off on the wire wheel and grinder. it probably took a good 30 minutes to get them perfect but every one came out just right...
then all I had to do was assemble the stack properly, ( not as easy as it sounds!)
its hard to explain how tight is too tight on the nut when it starts cutting through the insulator but its somewhere between, snug and sheering the bolt off ! <GRIN>
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also run a fine file FLAT on each washer after the holes are drilled so there is NO burrs sticking up at all...thats very important!... if the outside of the washer has a lip on it
, a slight burr from the punching proccess REMOVE IT as well! ... each washer has to be inspected for burrs or you will have shorts!
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Randy did have problems at first with goo getting in the "O"Ring slot and causing a short out, I didn't have that problem I think mainly because I used KOH at first and then switched to Lemonaide... it did leach out allot of Goo though at first and I changed the water/electrolyte for about 3 days probly 12 times all totaled and left the cells purculate over night on a trickel charger. then I dissasembled them all and double checked them and re assembled useing all the same O rings and insulators but if one looked questionable I replaced it, (only about 4 in the entire group looked bad)...
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HOWEVER... I have to admit that I have been plegged with dropping output sense the start on the "Randy cells". I thought it was the dirty conditions I made for the cells to work in, but perhaps its not, My Acid cleaning did bring back the drop in output though .
its possable that these little cells have an inherant weakness to filth!
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Remember to use a Nilon washer above and below each "O"ring and try to know where your at on each step of assembly... I lay my parts out in stacks so I can tell if I have to go do something else real fast and forget where I was. other wise, I have to back track and pull off the nilon insulators to see where the "O"ring is and place the next one oppisit!(which I did anyway just to be Positive!<GRIN>)
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at 2LPM to 2.5LPM for 20~25 amps I doubt you'll find a better producing cell, but they are a pain in the butt ! just keeping them clean... but then again, every cell is that I've made so far! heheheheh
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Bob.....
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« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 03:30:54 am by Bob »
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Tink
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« Reply #278 on: January 14, 2009, 08:37:48 am » |
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Bob,
I'll take your advice to heart. As I was tearing mine apart I noticed some of the SS shim stock washers were cutting into the washers so that may be the problem. I'll file them and see what happens. I think the intolerance to grime, goo or whatever is due to the very close spacing of the washers. I tried kool-aid and it does run much cleaner! I got an EFIE and it was a snap to install but I won't know if it is doing me any good since the cell is not producing. I'll keep you posted. I did notice a definate change in the performance though by adjusting the EFIE so it must be working. I'll know after a tankfull of gas when I get the Randy Cell going again. Darn these things take a long time. I'm glad I'm old and have the patience for this. My version of the younger man would never have stuck this out. But then I had cars that didn't have all this computer stuff at that time either. I know it will all be worth it in the end.
Tink
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Old Tink proberb: Don't hesitate, just do it!
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Blade Guy
Newbie
Posts: 6
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« Reply #279 on: February 10, 2009, 10:24:33 pm » |
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Randy or Bob
Do you know of anyone making your cell out of square plates? I have a lot of plates left over, wonder if i cut some at 1.75 square , drill 12 in. hole in the center and 1/4 & 3/8 holes in the corners> I would keep the .012 spasing.
Thanks Ray The Blade Guy
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Manta
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« Reply #280 on: February 11, 2009, 05:42:53 am » |
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just a test. Ignore this.
Manta
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Good questions have a sting in the tail.
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Bob
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« Reply #281 on: February 11, 2009, 06:48:19 am » |
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Blade Guy:
Just to Clarify, that Randy Cell Design is Randys baby, he came up with it completely on his own,
I only incurraged him to refine it a bit more, which he was in the proccess of doing anyway <GRIN>
so the credit goes to him , not me !
I don't know of anyone that has made a square version of the Randy cell yet, but its only a matter of time I am sure <GRIN>...
Randy and I both agree that it is the extream close spaceing that makes the little cell work as well as it does as well as the AMPS per square inch loading, my first extimate of 55sqr.inches for a Randy cell was probly under a bit as I calculated it again sense then and came up with closer to 70sqr inches, or something like that... but it is never the less very small, and that many amps (20) into that small area makes for a very productive cell, but if you increase the plate spacing, even a small amount the production drops off sharply, so it is a combonation of those 2 factors that make it work so well!
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I don't think the center hole helps much in production, infact about the only thing it might help with is a bit of cooling... I'ed build my Randy cells without holes in the center if I could find the Hole-less washers! HAHAHAHA
but switch plate covers have been used to make a rather LARGE version of the Randy cell useing the thredded rod or bolts to supply the power just as in the Randy cell...but because of the concaved shape of the switch plate covers the closeness of the plates couldn't be cept the same and therefore the output although good was not as good as expected that it could be compairing the size diference.
(max closeness was about 1/16" as compaired to the nilon folder thickness of 0.010" to 0.015")
even at that I believe the 11 plate switch plate cover cell achieved 3LPM if I remember correctly at 30amps... all in all, not to darn bad at all !
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the thing to remember is that if you increase plate Area, you have to raise amperage to keep the amps at 0.35 amps per square inch..... no less ! ( 0.5api is better, if you can get it, but that brings allot of heat with it)
... also the larger your plates the harder it is to Keep them real close without touching especially with only 2 anchor points.... adding a 3rd might be a good idea or even a 4th to stabilize larger plate designs.... and thick metal is also very helpfull.
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at one time I was thinking of making a 11 plate 6"x12" 24 guage cell in that manor with 4 connections 2 2 pos and 2 neg on each plate, seperated by the nilon folder insulators I use on the "Randy cell"
...in theory it should produce a Huge amount, but supplying it with enough amps to get to the 0.35API level would break the bank, so I set it aside till later ! <GRIN>
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fwiw
Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Blade Guy
Newbie
Posts: 6
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« Reply #282 on: February 11, 2009, 11:49:38 am » |
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Thanks Bob
I figure that 1.75 in. would be close to the same sq. in and ihave a48x96 sheetof nylon that mikes at .012 all i need is some ss shim. Will post the results.
Blade Guy (Got a F in spelling)
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Bob
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« Reply #283 on: February 11, 2009, 04:16:20 pm » |
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well, there is no real MAGIC Number so to speak about the washer Area, at least I don't think there is... in fact, if you could make them bigger you'd be better off...and be able to make more hydroxy gas
if you throw the amps at it... <grin>
... spelling ?... whats that got to do with anything ? that is NOT important to me ! so I don't even notice it.... the only reason I catch some on my end is the spell checker going bizerk and not letting me finish ! hehehehehe...
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the biggest hinderance i have found yet in building Hydroxy generators is the "Availability of meterial" to work with.... but if your going with a "Randy cell" do get HIGH QUALITY shim stock
as mine rusted and it was 304 SS I think... so keep dat in mind....
and shimstock is one of those things you have to order ....unfortionately....
or perhaps find a small amount of it from SS cup or something ( probly too thick!)
just remember that the shimstock has to thred ON to make good contact....
...
c ya!
Bob.
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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H²+O
Jr. Member
Posts: 86
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« Reply #284 on: August 31, 2009, 07:58:14 am » |
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what size are the o-rings Randy used? http://www.mcmaster.com/#o-rings/= (click on o-rings and it brings it up) would this o ring work? 5240T15 (on that site) how much do you have to compress the o-rings in the randy cell? thanks, steve |
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 08:09:14 am by H²+O »
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