Valveless Pulsejet powered by Hydroxy gas?

[Bob]

Heres an Idea for you fellers !
...
I have made about 4 Valveless Pulsejets... just to see if I could make them work...
and indeed they do..
they are all powered by Propane, but the fuel consumption is quite high as with all PJ's
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coupled with the Extream Noise that they make and high fuel consumption the Pulse jet engines are almost useless for normal every day use.
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 However there is a possability that with a pressurized Hydroxy gas generator system like we'ed need to make a torch system (constant regulated pressure) that its even possable to
power a Valveless Pulsejet.
  But to what end ? all they do is make thrust and NOISE and burn up allot of fuel to do that... they turn almost white hot when running so they are a very good source of heat even if they do nothing else!...
 So a very Small PJ could be used as a heater and if your making your own fuel you could have free heat. I have a 3" diam "Smothe Lady" Valveless PJ that is so noisy I wouldn't even consider useing it, and a 2" diam  welded up version of a Minimal parts version.
its intake is 5/8" and the exhost is 1" in diam and runs very well... completely throttable
from idle to full scream. and this little thing generates so much heat as to glow in the dark bright cherry red and is about as loud as a mid sized chainsaw... and sounds about the same too....
 .... this small of a PJ should put out thousands of BTU's of heat and probly run for about 4 hours on a 5 Gal propane tank.
so obviously the size could be smaller, and indeed probly should be.
the smallest version of the "Smothe lady" that I have has a 1" od exhost 2" Compustion chamber and 1/2" intake... which runs fantastic, better than all the rest even the Minimalist version, but is still fairly large to use as a house heater I would think
I'm thinking of a 1.5" od combustion chamber and 1/2" exhost and 3/8" intake might well be the perfect size for a heater.
the reason for such a small thing is because of the fuel consumption ( smaller uses less fuel) and the noise generated...  6" versions have been known to make so much noise as to turn concrete into powder ! so smaller is less noisy !
even a small unit glowing cherry red to almost white hot will put out a great deal of heat
enough heat to heat a garadge I'm sure
... instead of just making the Torch system and simply burning the Gas in a flame to get the heat, there is much much more heat if the fuel is compressed and ignited, or as in this case ignited and contained/compressed and then expelled... this is why I think the PJ is a perfect canadate for a house heater...the burning of the fuel is much more complete that way..... but ONLY if you can make enough fuel for it.
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Some Old Military heaters, like a water heater( I have one) work off the same principal
they chugg along and turn red hot and will boil a huge tub of water in nothing flat
...with less fuel than conventional methods I might add.
this same idea used for a Hydroxy heater to heat the house with has bound to be more efficient and many other methods.. especially if a good heat exchanger is used.
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a long time ago I read an artical in popular science mag. that was a home made green house heater useing the same principal and was a wall mount unit that was bot simple and effective. and could even be used by a thermostat to maintain a constant tempiture.
the unit was made from flashing and small vent pipeing, nothing fancy but worked extreamily well... and heated his green house for pennys a day.
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 If Hydroxy gas were to be used like this a few considerations would have to be made.
the safty of the hydroxy gas generator and pressure system would have to be very good!
a constant pressure of gas would be nessarry to keep the flame OUT there and prevent flashback....
Sense Hydroxy gas is much more explosive than regular fuels less air on the intake would be needed...
 the Optimum setting for such a heater would be just above idle where the running is strong and less likely to extinguish itself, yet not at higher pulses to conserve fuel.
...a long exhost pipe is a must with any type of PJ and that gives you ample opertunity to extract more heat from the pipe.
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So the question to you is .... it this idea worth investigateing as a heat source for the house?
or am I just "blowing smoke ?" HAHAHHAHAHA
...
Bob......

[wess]

So you made a buzz bomb huh...lol. Noisy suckers aint they. Heres a good site Bob. http://www.pulse-jets.com/   I dont know if the wife will put up with the noise tho..lol. What got you into jet engines? You are a man of many talents. I personally never fooled with a pulse jet but it may be promising. From the looks of it tho seems like it uses alot of fuel. But it does produce the heat..glowing red metal. You mentioned 5 gal propane used. It took about a week for me to go through 5 gal for a little travel trailer, heat & cooking. So the pulse jet sounds like a real fuel monster. But like I said, I never experimented with one...Hey, maybe hook it up to your gyro.

[Bob]

Howdy Wess !
Yah the GYRO was the major reason I got into the PJ's in the first place...
I needed a Pre rotator that took the rotor up more than 300RPM so I desided that putting 2
3" PJ's on the tips of the rotors ( one on each side) and fed with a small propane tank under the seat would be the answer.... but Alas , the PJ's put out only 2 to 2.5LBs of thrust and ate more fuel than I ever though possable ! 2 PJ's of that size running full tilt would go through a 5 gal container in about 15 to 30 min max.. and sense the thrust is so low it would probly take that long just to spin up the rotors! ... not to mention the added weight of it all.... so instead I mounted a chainsaw engine over the engine and a drive shaft up to turn the rotor.... I have yet to fully test it but it looks very promiceing !
I am hoping for lift off in about 20 feet or so 50feet max... and I think I have the right combination to do it now... if I can ever get back to playing with it...
this moving I have been doing for almost a year now is a royal pain.... but it is without a doubt closer than it was of being done ! HAHAHHAHA
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but as a heater those little things are fantastic... a small enough one would burn far far less fuel... even a 1" diam combustion chamber would probably heat a large room.
and ran of Hydroxy gas it would be vurtually free heat...with a wind generator chargeing a bank of batteries, solar pannels and what not to make it all work togather.
  I think 5LPM would run a 1" PJ...... but I'm far from certain on that <GRIN>
of course there are BTU formula that a person could use to figure all this out, but I'll be Hanged if I know what they are ! HAHAHAHA!
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I do know that when I was running my 3" PJ that the heat from it ...from the side, was so intense that you had to stay back 3 feet from it.... thats how hot it was when running!
but thats more heat than you could ever use in a house...good thing as you couldn't afford to feed it anyway... but something smaller with a fan to blow the heat into the room , may well be an idea for a heater for Hydroxy gas useage, rather than the open flame idea
...not only is ALL the gas burned up but it does so very quickly... so it has good points and bad points <GRIN>
....
Bob.......

[Manta]

Bob,
Whats the law like on gyros in you neck of the woods ?  I fancied the idea some time back,  but in the UK we have to hold a full PPL.  There it gets expensive.  We can fly as a tethered kite,  but if you unhitch to glide down then you could be prosecuted.

Manta

[Bob]

Well, at the moment we don' have to have a Liscnses ... YET... I expect that to change in the next decade. at least as long as the craft weighs less than 254lbs, And cannot exceed 70mph in level flight.
  This sounds "Reasonable" until you get into it and realise that any gyro that weighs 254lbs is a deathtrap just waiting to happen... these flying lawn chairs scare the pants off me... I admit my gyro is probably heavy by 10lbs or so , because I added a pre rotator
and strengthened the thing up a considerable amount.
2 years , maybe 3 now I dunno I crashed my gyro on take off... at flight speed.
that has lead to the total distruction of the gyro and subsiquent injoury of the pilot in many cases to this date... simply because the gyros are built too flemzy !
... My gyro however suffered minimal dammage, I lost the rotor, prop and driveline to the pre rotator I had on it at the time.... but that was all... I got a scratch on my left arm
where I drug it in the rocks...
 I make no bones about it ...I am Proud of my Gyro and its striength... its far safer to fly it than many many others out there that are manifactured and sold... even if I am not a safe pilot because I have not recieved any formal instructions... I'm not a rich man and cannot afford the $200.00 an hr lessons way up in portland oregon !
...so I have tought my self to fly...slowly but I have yet to make my maden flight...
I shall in the near future I hope.
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here's a pic my dad took of me and the gyro about 3 seconds before the thing was slideing on its side down the runway.... I'll never forget that sound as long as I live, that rotor sounded like handgernades every time it hit the ground, shrapnel was thrown 1/4 mile away
.... yet I walked away and the gyro was barely dammaged... do that with any OTHER gyro and you'll have a twisted ball of useless metal and a doctor visit!
.... <GRIN>
Bob...

[Tink]

Bob,
Nice paint job. You kow a few years ago my friend from Hong Kong came over from China and we went to a ultralite air port just outside of Pheonix. Now my friend had never flown a real airplane of any type before. But he is a huge radio controled airplane entheasusiest. The instructor who took him up in one of those things let him fly it and because of all the experience he had over the years with the radio controled planes and coppers he was able to fly the darn thing like a pro. It reminded me of that movie about a model airplane designer who took that crashed B-29 and made a plane out of it and it flew.
Tink

[Bob]

Anyway....
here's a pic of my smaller PJ running on propane.... you can see the intense heat it puts out
... it may be a way to use Hydroxy gas effeciently as a heater ... but I dunno.
...
Bob.......

[randy]

man that puppy gets hot, but don't ya think yer tractor would run better with the magneto installed??

[Bob]

HAHAHA Very observant Randy ! the drill turned the magneto fireing the sparkplug to start the Valveless Pulse jet, once it was running the spark was no longer needed as it was self perpetuateing at that point on.
the running of that little PJ was probly only a few minutes in time... they get much hotter than that...almost see through ! that is why the gurus of PJ's make them out of stainless steel and not common steel like I did ! <GRIN>
but with heat being generated like that from Hydroxy gas you could heat your Shop for free as long as your batteries could keep up with the demand !
...obviously wind generators or solar chargers or something massive to keep up with the large LPM output would be needed, and a smaller PJ than the one shownto use less fuel , but even a small one would heat a big shop if you used say 30 ft of exhost pipe and then put a muffler on it to quiet it down ! say a "S" shape of 1" tubeing waveing back and forth 6ft high  all almost red hot.... would produce more heat than even the coldest climets could use !
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a electric/gas stove igniter to replace the magneto to start the heater with...
crack the hydroxygas valve before the bubbler and poke the ignition button... adjust the run to slow but steady pulses and let it purculate making fantastic free heat!
heheheheh
Bob...........

[randy]

since hydroxy burns so darn fast wouldn't flameout be a problem?

[Bob]

Honnestly I dunno it might be !
I do know they run on Accetaline gas,and Alchohal, propane, diesel,gasoline and almost anything that burns.... but sense Hydroxy gas burns at such a fast rate it may well be a problem... but I really doubt it because of the make up of the combustion cycle it may RUN
a bit different is all.
...
Bob...

[scratch1676]

hey that looks pretty darn cool!

[Bob]

here is another pic of my big PJ ...it is so extreamily noisy that it shakes the very fiber of my shirt, rattels the windows of the house and will even make you sick to the stomach!
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[hydrotinkerer]

Hey Bob to run one on hho would you not have to run the gas under "+" pressure to keep the flame from running down the hose? Like running those little hho torches.

[Bob]

Ya see ! ... thats what I'm on about ! the idea of burning the hydroxy gas in an engine such as this would release ALL the heat in the gas not just part of is as in an open flame
its bound to be at the very least 2 to 3 times more heat out of the same amount of gas as you could be normially getting by burning the gas with an open flame....
the problem is that a gas has a stored amount of BTU's in it and burning it releases a good percentage of it, but NOT ALL of it.... infact even burning it in one of these PJ's would not bur ALL of it, but a bunch more than normally would be burned.... not only do you burn it up more completely but you get MUCH more heat out of it because you are mixing air with it and leaning it out, in essance streaching your Hydroxy gas to last you longer....getting every drop of heat out of it !
.... I realy think it will work good and in the spring I hope to have a cell big enough to experiment with running a PJ on Hydroxy gas....
I will also try to build a smaller Valveless Pulse jet to use the Hydroxy gas on
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 the smaller you go with PJ's the harder it is to get them to run on Propane infact when you go under 1" diam of Combustion chamber size most people switch to Accetaline to run the PJ on.... Hydrogen is probly as good if not better for this purpose I think, but I will have to prove that to myself to be sure.
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 My wife mentioned that You know you could probly power the house with methane down at the ranch right ? and I agreed but explained that the mathane reactor would be expensive to make up, where a Hydroxy generator may well be expensice for some of the parts like the stainless steel but if I can fuel the cars with it I would save enough to buy a new house in a few years !... I explained that I needed 2 large water tanks like grandma has  to make a good methane reactor I'ed take the bottom off the smaller one and the top off the slightly bigger one and build a chain hoist over the top of the two one setting inside the other... raise the inner one and put in cow dung and anything else I can find that will rot easily... leaves garbage, Pig shit, you name it and then put the lid back down on it and addabout 100 lbs of weight to give the Methane gas some pressure, anf then I can burn it in the cook stove or what not....
not real expensive but at $350 each for the water tanks it gets expensive fast !
and I couldn't power the cars with it unless I had a pressure pump to pressurize a propane tank to a decent pressure to get enough gas in the tank to run to town and back,
... where with Hydroxy gas if I can ever get it working good enough for the car to go 100%
I will certainly have enough shortly to power the entire house as well as the heat too
although that would more than likely take some wind generators and solar pannels and a raft of homemade batteries I would at least be self sustaining when done... where the Methane just isn't enough inless I have 3 or 4 of those reactors going at all times.
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 I don't figure heating a house will take as much Hydroxy gas as it does to run the truck even if the truck is a 2.4ltr engine even if I use a water heater burner inside the woodstove.... because the truck just goes through more fuel...but it will probably be very close to the same in the end, but if I can ise the heat of compression in the burning proccess as the PJ uses the heat will be much more intense !
and no moveing parts makes it super reliable !
 I figured a network or grid of tubeing and pipe the exhost through it captureing all of the heat I possably could...
 making my solar hot boxes in the 1980's tought me that gathering allot of low heat adds up to a bunch of heat in the end results....
I was totally amazed at that hot box..... you could lay your hands on the tin collectors in the box... they were warm to the touch is all but inside the house you could not hold your hand in the air streem for long it was that hot ! ( in good sunlight!)
so useing a running engine weather it is a PJ running on hydroxy gas or a Briggs and stratton running off of corn squeezen's pipeing the exhost through a labranth of tubeing with a fan behind it will definately heat the house in short order !

I figured a box outside the house with large ducting into the house from it
for 2 reasons , noise and isolation as well as safty !
so I'll probably convert a steel shed into a HASA to heat my house but have a hydroxy plant in the shed... not a fire box ! HAHAHAHAH
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I dunno just kind'a rambleing on, thinking... sometimes good ideas come from it !
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C ya !
Bob........