LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« on: December 04, 2008, 08:23:27 pm » |
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Hello, will soon be starting a new cell design using Platinum core and a Stainless Steel case.
Has anyone tried using these two in a cell for a tube type cell.
I am thinking along the lines of a dual core system, all test so far indicate output to be higher then what I have done in the past and still be controlable.
BASIC INFO: SST. case charged POSITIVE two identical Platinum cores charged NEGATIVE both self contained in the SST. case. A total saturation system, ( O2 ) to one bubbler for exhaust, dual output on HH, fed a expansion tank then through the regulator and into the injectors.
The end GOAL is no gasoline. My current avg. fuel cost is $3.00 per month (gasoline) with over 2000 miles recorded on present cell. Yes if the cell runs out on HH the truck comes to a hault slowly until all HH is gone. Ditch water worked fine to get me to work and back home. I Love passing up gas stations.
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 09:04:01 pm » |
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That's a pretty cheap gas bill. Good job!
I'm curious about the platinum. What kind of a core? Is it something you found or made? Interesting.
Charley
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 09:08:34 pm » |
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It would be nice if I could make it, a good friend of mine gave me a 20 x 4 inch chunk of it.
Going to try and get 5 cells out of it.
Charley have you tried this material?
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charley
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2008, 11:11:02 pm » |
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No, I havn't made one out of it. I'd like to but don't have the materials. It should work really well though as it won't corrode and it is a much better conductor than stainless. I am pretty sure that some commercial units use platinum. It'll be interesting though. I wonder what happens when you use a platinum plate next to a stainless. Good luck.
Charley
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Manta
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2008, 11:37:54 am » |
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With Platinum at around $1,185 per Troy you have very generous friends.
Manta
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2008, 11:52:29 am » |
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I had no idea of it's cost. I checked into the two metal's and they work great together under extreme heat, but can not find out how well the platinum will work with 30 amps.
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Manta
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 12:07:15 pm » |
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LtCFisher,
Are you sure that it is Platinum ?
I would be interested to know what the sheet weighs. It seems odd that someone should give away something like this. I would worry a bit.
Manta
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 02:44:25 pm » |
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I guess it weighs about 2 to 2 1/2 lbs.
He had about 6 pieces just laying in his shop. some are bigger then the one he gave me.
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wess
Newbie
Posts: 33
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2008, 01:05:30 am » |
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Humm...$32,000 - $48,000 worth of platinum. Wish I had your friend as a friend...Don't think I'd use it in a HHO generator tho. But hey, if $32,000 sounds worth it, go for it...It hurries most on here to afford Stainless...
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Manta
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2008, 11:14:33 am » |
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LcTFisher,
I notice that you intend to make the steel case positive. Most cars in the UK, and I think in the US, have a negative ground system.
If this case touches your chassis then you will have big problems. Wouldn't it be easier/safer to make the case negative ?
What are your reasons for making it positive ?
Manta
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2008, 07:25:37 pm » |
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My thoughts of using a SST. case/tube would give me a 360 degree targit for the negative electrons to hit, I would have to insulate the tube of course using a 4 inch rubber pipe cap two of them will work fine for that part.
The tube cell insulated casing and a negative platinum negative core which is round also. I think if I stack 3 neg inside the sst. tube I should be able to control it.
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Bob
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2008, 01:55:29 am » |
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Sorry Guys for moving this topic on ya but I am trying to keep the PLANS section strictly
Plans for working generators...
Quite a few people have suggested that keeping a board just for the plans alone would be a good thing, and I agree... makes it easier for people to find working plans.
but we can BS about ideas and possable make up for generators here all the time <GRIN>
...
sorry for the inconvenience !
Bob....
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2008, 02:50:21 am » |
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I'm thinking that the metal is Platinum Coated or PLATED... like an anodized piece of metal or perhaps chrome.
coating or plating is fairly easy I have found... I put a brass welding rod in a bucket Pos of my charger connected to it and put something metal in it on the neg lead both held suspended on a stick over the water and let it set for 24 hrs with the charger going...
it was barely registering any amperage...but it coated the piece of metal I had on the neg clamp with a nice layer of brass, looked real neet !
I took it to the wire wheel and unfortunately it was so thin a layer that it came off fairly easy... so probably 3 or 4 days would get a good coating on there of platinum, gold or even silver all of which would probably help the conductivity of stainless steel in our cells.
...
I was thinking of Copper plateing my stainless steel washers for a Randy cell
but thought better of it because of the GOO it would probably produce because of the copper
...but Say an Old Silver fork out of the kitchen drawer might be the answer !
coat the stainless steel washers in Silver ! make silver plated washers ! HAHAHHAHA
... its a thought !....plate your own !
.....
Bob......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Manta
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2008, 06:50:04 am » |
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Bob,
In front of me I have a test cell with two 5" * 2" copper plates. I ran it for just ten minutes in plain water at 1.8 amp and got a nice layer of green gunge on the bottom of the jar.
Guess that answers your point.
Manta
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Manta
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2008, 06:54:55 am » |
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LcTFisher,
If you could give me the exact dimensions (length, width, thickness, weight) it would be possible to work out the specific gravity and then compare it with that of Platinum. This would tell us if it was plated or not.
A practical use for the old Archemedis principle.
Manta
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Bob
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2008, 04:38:21 pm » |
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Manta:
Ok I understand that on the copper plates... but couldn't you silver plate the copper and stop that green Gunge in its tracks and have the low resistance of the copper plates to carry the electricity ?
I think it sounds like a good project for ya ! you got the plates already ! go swipe a silver spoon from the kitchen and plate those puppies for about a week and sneek the spoon back before Momma Notices it missing ! HAHAHHHAHAHA
there isn't a better sealant on the planet that electroplating ... it that won't keep the copper inside Nothing will ! ... and copper would be my first choice for plates because of the very low resistance in it.
You could come up with a super effecient cell just by plateing copper !...
or one that gets green goo all the time because it still leaches out !
hard to say !
...
what ya think ?
...
Bob........
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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wess
Newbie
Posts: 33
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2008, 05:05:15 pm » |
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I would refer you to the Hoffman Voltameter. Platinum Electrodes. Splitting water molecules.
Electroplating isn't easy for precious metals. Some require use of cyanide, metallic salts etc. Some metals are rather easy to electroplate like copper etc. as Bob found out.
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Bob
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2008, 07:59:07 pm » |
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Hummm so it ain't all that easy... it depends on the metal being used to plate...
figures don't it ! ... probly takes 5 gal of Cinide to electro-plate useing just silver!
HAHAHHA... just my luck !
...here I thought I was on to an easy way to get the low resistance of copper but the High resistance to crosion of silver....
but its probly not that simple!
...
I do know they have large vats of Super bad poisons at the crome shops ! but that is about it
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
...
Bob........
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Manta
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2008, 01:31:26 pm » |
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Bob,
you may be onto something here.
I'll have a word with the chem lab people at work. It will be Thursday before I find out though; don't work Wednesdays.
Manta
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Bob
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« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2008, 04:34:33 am » |
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Manta :
Did ya ask those fellers at work about the electro-plateing ?
I'm curious to what they have to say! <GRIN>
Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Bob
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« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2008, 04:47:04 am » |
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LTCFisher:
..
I was re reading your plansat the beginning of this thred about useing 2 cores and at first I didn't understand why 2...but it dawned on me you are going to try to seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen
am I correct on that ?
...and sense you'll have HYDROGEN , I think your chances of it working in the injectors is a bunch better than trying to do the same with Hydroxy gas, as the mixture is all wrong with hydroxy gas
but with pure hydrogen you should be able to get the same kind of running as with gasoline i'ed think
although it may run a bit weaker than with gasoline it should still operate quite well.
it will be educational to see how you do it... I figured a person would need very large magnets by the
seperator section to move the hydrogen molicules to one side and the oxygen to the other to help seperate the gasses.... have you thought of useing large electromagnets to help seperate the gasses ?
or are you planning on the neg and pos of the cores doing it all ? (which it might well do, I dunno)
....
thanks for the info !
...
Bob.....
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2008, 02:44:02 pm » |
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Bob, I plan on building two cells, semi- independent of each other, the connection between them will only be the liquid bath. I am going to be running some test's on just how much power will be required to do this. I can use a connecting tube so both cells are using the same fluid. the gas will exhaust out the top as normal, oxygen to a filter then out, pure hydrogen to a storage tank then onto the regulator and so forth. I am going to try a new power supply design taking the 12-volts from the battery and running it through a buck and boost circuit this should yeild me 2-circuits at 12 volts @ 40 amps each, from a single or stock altenator.
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Manta
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« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2008, 04:14:39 pm » |
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Bob,
Checked with the chem lab. They think that the silver would be stripped of the copper in short order.
Back to stainless.
Manta
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hydrotinkerer
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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2008, 04:42:26 pm » |
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I think those so called soft metals would be stripped off and suspended in the solution in short order. You use electrolysis to make colloidal silver.
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hydrotinkerer
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2008, 08:01:01 pm » |
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LTCFisher,
I have been fooling around with separating hydrogen from oxygen. When you separate it you have to keep both gas outlets equal or the electrolite will climb up the opposite side. Meaning if you have two outlets and you pressurize only one the gas backs up and pushes the electrolite to the opposite side. In the setup you described the plates will be far apart so gas outlet will be really low.
The setup I have is a separater plate with a piece of silk glued to it so I could get the plates closer together.
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2008, 09:11:00 pm » |
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You are very correct in that part of equal pressure on both sides, I believe I will have to have 2 regulators set at the same psi, to keep that from taking place.
Thanks for the info.
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scratch1676
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2008, 01:34:37 am » |
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Hydrotinker I would like to see pics of that seems interesting.
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always buy a good bed and a good pair of shoes because you will always be in one of them.
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Manta
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« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2008, 11:04:15 am » |
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LcTFisher,
re, ...running it through a buck and boost circuit ...
What is this ? I don't know this phrase, sounds local.
Manta
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2008, 04:53:47 pm » |
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Not just local they use them all over the world. Example: say you have 220 volts and need 480 you would feed the 220 in and get 480 out. Pretty straight forward with ac., dc. requires more parts thats all. Dc. one is made up of mostly Mossfets and a couple IC'c and the rest. Ac. uses a transformer.
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Bob
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« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2008, 07:39:06 pm » |
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LTCFisher:
Are you planning on running a 110AC inverter off the 12 vdc system to get higher voltage?
..then rectify it back to DC ? or what ?
...
Bob......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2008, 08:04:58 pm » |
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No, Bob.
I am taking the 12-volt standard system and splitting it into two seperate supplies, using a buck and boost design, it is a electronic controled unit which takes a single 12-volt input and will doubles or triples the output voltage wise at a constant 30-40amps. I was considering droping the volts to 3.6 and have 8 output at 30amps. But it is still in the layout stage with only 1/3-rd of the circuit done. The material for the new dual cell just came in yesterday.
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2008, 08:17:49 pm » |
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Bob, how did you put a icon imageunder your name?  ?? |
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2008, 08:47:08 pm » |
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The platinum I was given to me is junk or spent platinum, HA! now I know why he gave it to me after Manta said it was so expensive. Wonder what I can get for the scrap. I put 12-volts to it and it started to flake apart, Time the bubbles stopped it was half way desolved into the bottom of the bucket. like it crystalized. Back to SST.
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Bob
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« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2008, 08:58:21 pm » |
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Bob, how did you put a icon imageunder your name? ?? Howdy Fisher ! Under your "Profile" poke the "Forum Profile information"... there you have a few options you can select to up-load your own picture, or what ever you want... ... if you need more help just say so ! <GRIN> ... Bob....... |
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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Manta
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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2008, 07:29:03 am » |
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LctFisher,
re,
..should yeild me 2-circuits at 12 volts @ 40 amps each,...
If this is all you need (in the above quote) why not simply take two supply leads from the B+ terminal ?
Each one will be 12 Volt. No need for electronics.
You could draw whatever current you wanted from both. Limited only by your alternator capacity and the guage of your wire.
Manta
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2008, 08:18:06 am » |
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HA! That would be to easy!!! No If I use the booster circuit, the electrical system in the truck will only see the original load required to run the 1st stage of the booster which I can preset. In theory I can get twice the power out of the booster then the alternator can produce without damaging it.
I believe that if I can produce more NEG. Electrons leaving the plate the more gas can be produced, when that is not possible then a much larger surface area is required to obtain the same effect. The positive can be anything that will attract the neg. electrons for recycling them. That's why I went with the tube design to achieve a 360 degree surface area as flat plate designs require a 3 plate + - + to get the neg. plate to produce on both sides which adds weight to the cell.
Ok, to sum it up and stop this ole man from rambling, It will give me a higher voltage and amp output then the normal electrical system in my truck.
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Manta
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« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2008, 11:09:01 am » |
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Umm, yes, well.... Let's say I look forward to reading your results. Anyone got a paracetamol they don't need ?  Manta |
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Manta
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« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2008, 08:21:25 am » |
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LtCFisher,
Don't throw out the dissolved Platinum. boil off the water and store the rest. It is still valuable.
Manta
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Manta
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« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2008, 09:48:07 am » |
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lTcfISHER,
RE,
...I believe I will have to have 2 regulators set at the same psi, to keep that from taking place....
The scheme below would be self regulating.
Manta
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hydrotinkerer
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« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2008, 03:18:57 pm » |
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Manta, Ideally for the setup pictured to be totally equal you would need to run a hose between the two regulating water reservoirs. Any little change in one directly affects pressure on the cells electrolite level. That is one problem I have had with the pictured setup. Even the sizes of the outlets for H and O make a big difference on how the level in the cell stays equal.
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2008, 03:47:02 pm » |
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I know they make a balancing regulator for hydraulics, they are in tandem if one side changes so does the other to maintane equal psi and flow, has any one seen it in a mechanical regulator? Like a counter balancing regulator for fuel or gas. Maybe ASCO makes one.
OH, my cell in the truck had a major melt down to day, it is now on the work bench to be recyled or scrapped.
Good while it lasted.
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hydrotinkerer
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« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2008, 03:58:44 pm » |
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What happened to your cell?
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LTCFISHER
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Posts: 71
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« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2008, 04:42:22 pm » |
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I think the injector or filter got pluged up, who knows, it collasaped in on it self. didn't leak anything. Looks like it heated up and went into a vacuum when I shut it down, it had no way to equalize the air inside due to the one way check valve. Have to work on that issue.
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Manta
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« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2008, 05:09:00 pm » |
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Hydrotinkerer,
I was thinking that because the floating receivers are free to move they would rise independantly depending upon the amount of gas going into each one. Having said that. maybe an increase in, say. the oxygen receiver would cause the gas to be pushed across into the hydrogen side. I think you could get around this by arranging for a barrier to close the air space above the electrolyte between the plates so hydrostatic pressure would prevent the gas crossing over. If you didn't allow too much pressure in the receivers then it may work.
Manta
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Manta
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« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2008, 05:18:05 pm » |
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Here is how I envisage the barrier. Just don't let the electrolyte level fall below it.
Manta
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Manta
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« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2008, 05:57:43 pm » |
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LcTFisher,
re,
...to maintane equal psi and flow, ...
Will you get equal pressure and flow when each gas is a different density and produced in different volumes ?
Manta
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wess
Newbie
Posts: 33
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« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2008, 05:08:49 am » |
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Read up on the Hoffmann Voltameter. 2 platinum electrodes splitting H & O. Its a science project in some schools.
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Manta
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« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2008, 07:00:44 am » |
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wess,
Just had a quick look at a couple of items in the HV. I'll study it in more detail later (just going to work) but I can see a couple of problems with the classic set-up that would probably make it unsuitable for production work; but the principle seems to be similar to what I suggested.
Manta
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LTCFISHER
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Posts: 71
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« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2008, 07:25:04 am » |
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Great Minds Think Alike, I was drawing that design yesterday and have to come up with a good membrane for the divider wall. And I have to figure out how to equalize the cell temp with ambient temp to stop the "cave in effect" when shutting it down in cold weather.
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LTCFISHER
Jr. Member
Posts: 71
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« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2009, 09:31:37 am » |
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Hello,
I will be back with a new cell soon, have to fix my oscilloscope, to finish testing. I will get back to everyone at that time.
LtCFisher
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Bob
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« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2009, 05:49:46 am » |
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Good to see your still with Us Fisher ! hang in there !
.... looking forward to your info as always !
...
Bob.......
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"Mother always told me "Son the Imposable is only a little bit harder"...and You know ... She WAS RIGHT!"
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