Randy cell, sealed?

[Bob]

HAY if i can get HOPE from walmart for 10 bucks I'll go buy a bunch of that !.....
er... oh thats H D P E....  ( hopelessy Dippy personal Express ?)
OOOH a cutting board...  a teflon cutting board the white ones ...OOOOH yah ... actually thats probly cheeper than Plexyglass ! ...good thinking ! 
I got one around here like that somewhere ... hehehe  it will soon be in past tense !
thanks fer the info !
Bob........

[charley]

Well, I've got one built.

I really don't know how this picture thing works but I guess they're on here.  For the generator I used 1/4 inch fittings, 1/4 inch Plexiglas and for orings I found some seals at NAPA that had a groove in the center of the seal so what you're seeing is a washer then a washer with a seal surrounding it with the washer in the groove then a washer, etc.  There are 11 washers five of which have seals around them and one oring on each end washer that seals the hole in the washer and the Plexiglas's ends.  The thickness of the rubber that is separating the washers was .05 before tightening.  I know it compressed quite a bit but I can't tell you exactly how thick it is now.  I doubt that it is .010 but I'd bet less than half of the .05 I started with.  I used two ss straps for connections on the ends so you have +nnnnnnnnn-.  This was fairly easy to build once you figure out what you're doing.

I did run this for a little bit but ran out of light(my testing lab is the back of my pickup so when the sun goes down the testing is done) so don't read too much into my testing.

I hooked the generator into the sight gauge of a bubbler so it would suck water in the bottom and the bubbles would force it out the top.  For this generator to work it has to behave like a little pump I think.  If it didn't it would run out of electrolyte and you'd be done.  I really don't think one of these can work very well because of this.  If you think about it the hydrogen has to escape and the electrolyte has to flow back into the gap in the washers through the same hole and actually through the small gap surrounding the hole.  If you submerge a tero cell the bubbles flow out the top creating a vacuum for the electrolyte to flow in the bottom creating a upward current.  This generator can't do that.

For testing I used six packs of koolaid in a little over 2 cups of water the first time.  I couldn't get the amp gauge to hardly move and got very little production.  I cleaned the koolaid out and tried pure vinegar.  Same results.  I was running out of light so I flushed the vinegar out as best I could in a hurry and filled it up with a little over 2 cups of water mixed with two or three tablespoons of koh.  The amps came up to two or three amps and I started to get some bubbles going through the top tube.  I added a teaspoon or two more koh and then something really weird happend.  I lost all amps and all production.  The gen completely quit working.  I still have voltage and I have ohms.  I don't have any idea what went wrong but like I said it's dark so I guess I'll take a look in the morning.

Charley

[Too Many Secrets]

You can use HDPE and you can get it at Walmart for 10 bucks. I use it for my end plates for all my dry cells. It is the white cutting board. Easy to work with and doesn't crack around the bolt holes.

Yeah I've seen those. Great idea!

[Too Many Secrets]

Well, I've got one built.

NICE!!! Looks good. Wonder what it does....?

(This is like a 'build it and they will come' moment...)

Also, any details like # of washers would be awesome.

[hydrotinkerer]

I am curious what it will do and at what amp.

It sure doesn't look old enough to be away from its momma.

[charley]

Sorry guys.  I didn't know you were looking at what I had before I finished what I was writing.

Hope the rest helps.

Charley

[Too Many Secrets]

Awesome Charley. Sorry to tailgate on your post, was excited to see that thing!

I think the cooler electro will 'pump' into the cell. In fact as stated before, I think it would work fine with the holes on the horizontal. In fact, maybe better as all cells would have electro (and HHO) at the same time. As HHO is released from the cell, it will suck or draw in cooler electro to fill the space. Gravity will also help if the cell is lower then the supply of electro.

Good job Charley. Keep us posted!

[Bob]

I agree with Too many Secrets on the pumping action... but with the hose barbs pointed up and down
the washers horizonal... I think thats what he ment <GRIN>
...
the idea of the 2 hose barbs is to make it a pump  Charley... and to pump the electrolite constantly through the bubbler, as long as you have 3 places to connect to the bubbler it will work fine
one from the bottom of the bubbler to the bottom hose barb on the cell and another hose barb at the 1/2 or 3/4 mark up the bubbler to the top of the cells upper hose barb...
useing the same method as the "Flooded Tero cell" method. that way the water/electrolite comes in through the bottom hose barbe in the cell and goes out with the bubbles through the hose barb on top
...
I'm not understanding how you hooked it up where you were thinking the waters going in and out was through the top only???... thats not the idea with the 2 hose barbs, bottom one to the bottom of the bubbler, top one to the middle of the bubbler , top one from the bubbler is the output ( 3 hose barbs on the bubbler!)
...
Bob.........

[charley]

The way I had this hooked up was I have a couple of elbows in the bubbler connected by a hose that I was using for a sight gauge.  I cut the hose and placed the gen inbetween with the barbs facing up and down.  the outlet for the bubbler is on top so I have an inlet for the gen an outlet for the gen which is underwater and an outlet on top for the gas to escape.  I wasn't really thinking the water could only go through the top I just am thinking if the water and the hydrogen has to flow through the gap around the center hole it's going to get a little tight.  Where Randy's isn't sealed, hydrogen and water can also move through the gap in the outside of the washers too.  I do think that as it makes hydrogen the escaping hydrogen will create a vacuum that will pull the water into the spaces in the washers.  Having it below the bubbler should also help because the pressure should force the water in somewhat.  Good thinking Too Many Secrets

I did find my problem.  I was in a hurry the last time I put the gen together(didn't think about having to have an oring between the last washer and the plexiglas to seal the center hole) and forgot to put in the last washer so I didn't have a very good connection between the shimstock and the washer.  I'm suprised it worked at all.

I do hope this works.  If it does it will be easy to build and all you'll need is a combination bubbler reservoir with an inlet hose and an outlet hose for the gen.  Of course I don't know how hot it will get yet but with the fluid flowing through it I don't think it will be a problem.  You could hook a radiator before the inlet on the gen also I think.

Charley

[Too Many Secrets]

I agree with Too many Secrets on the pumping action... but with the hose barbs pointed up and down
the washers horizonal... I think thats what he ment <GRIN>

Bob.........

Bob I know it sounds wrong, but I'm wondering just how 'flooded' the cell would stay with barbs up and down. (as I've seen, a cell seems to 'find it's own level' by pumping excess water out with HHO.) With barbs on the horizontal at least each washer has 50% fluid on it at all times.

Of course all debate is easily dismissed by testing output.

I wonder what a 45degree angle would do? What is the tilt of the earth on it's axis? I don't know, I'm babbling... must... get.. sleep...

Like Charley says, I'm amazed he got anything with such a huge leak at the center hole...

[Bob]

Charley:
 Ahh Ok you got it right after all  good man !
...
the way I look at the thing is this, any position you can put the cell in that it has LESS of a bubble held in it the better off you are !
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it shall be interesting to see what kind of LPM you get out of that little thing !
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the question I have floating around in my head is how many plates can you have before the production starts to fall... hooked up in Series that is about 7 plates with 14vdc  I believe so my drawing of 8 plates isn't that good of an idea.
so 6 to 7 plates should be maximum plates for output because of the voltage drop between the plates in series... if ya have 8 Charley take one out  if your useing 14vdc take 2 out if your useing 12vdc.
...
the only other thing I can think of besides  small holes around the paramiter of the o ring would be a large 2" counter sunk indent on the top plastic plate that holds it all togather to get the bubbles to travel up easier.
...
ofcorse a person could run each washer through a Cone press and press a slight cone shape into the washers and have all the cones face up, that way no air/gas could be trapped at all... it would all go out.

...
the problem with this idea is the very small size... it needs to be about 400sqr inches to get any amount of VOLUME out of it at all..
that would mean cutting your own disks drilling the center holes and bigger O rings
...
although you could just make a bunch of small ones and gang'em  up, its a bunch more work and  harder in the long run.

thanks for the Experimentation Charley !
...
Bob......