Calculateing how much Hydroxy gas is needed in an Auto.

[Bob]

In order to figure out accurately how much Hydroxy gas you would need
to run a car at 100% hydroxy gas you need a basis to start from.

Time after Time I read where a person is trying to calculate how much Hydroxy gas they will need to run their car or truck. the very first thing people do is start calculating RPM times engine displacement… and this is totally the wrong approach

That method would give us the Volume of Fuel/air at Full throttle only, simply because that is the only time the engine uses All that displacement for power, the rest of the time the throttle is partially closed, this creates a vacuum in the cylinders, but the carberator only allows a small amount of fuel/air to pass and get into the cylinders… they do NOT fill up… so what you have is little bangs instead of Big bangs that control your power.

With that in mind we then can figure out how Much Hydroxy gas is needed to run the engine, well almost…

If we know how much gasoline it takes to go a mile in an engine, say 8 ounces (guessing here) and we multiply that by the Fuel to air Ratio of that vehicle, say 14:1 ( 14 parts air to 1 part gasoline) we will see that it only took 14×8 ounces or 328 ounces… thats 10.25 liters of Fuel AND Air to go that mile…. this is a Fact we Know that the engine runs this way, although it CAN pump a HUGE volume if pressed to do so, but 90% of the time it doesn’t.

So, that is what you need to figure out how much Hydroxy gas you need to run the engine.

although it does not take into consideration, acceleration from a standing stop which Guzzles the fuel and air both…

it just takes on the average of the cruse consumption, nor does it factor in that Hydroxy gas explodes 10 times better than gasoline/air does.
so you can easily assume it will take a great deal more than that to run the engine properly, to be able to accelerate, stop and start, is all part of the Need for the right amount of fuel…

Now if you could test your car and get an accurate reading on how much gasoline it uses upon full throttle acceleration up to say 65mph that would be a better more accurate reading than just the 8 ounces in the previous example… I expect it would probably triple or perhaps even quadruple in amount.
So lets see what we get if it Quadruples !
 4×8oz.=32ounces to accelerate to 65mph thats a 32 ounce container of gasoline just to accelerate up to 65MPH !...I don't want to feed that car! HEHEHEHEHEHE !
( not on your life! no way it can be that high!) but 32×14:1 Fuel air ratio makes 448 ounces …sense there are 32 ounces in a Liter you’ll need 448/32 = 14 Liters.
but that is the most absolute WORST case senerio
...
most big V8 will probably only need half of that …(guessing here of course… as I have no data on the actual gasoline used… but I know it to be somewhere in that area…)
....
so how fast does the vehicle get to 65mph…1 minute ? if it takes all that time to get to 65mph its a very slow auto !
but lets say it does take exactly a Minute to reach 65mph and it uses 14liters to do it….

that means you need 14liter per minute output.

or 7 hydroxy cells that produce 2LPM all going full blast to accomplish that task and run on 100% hydroxy gas.

…so you don’t need 450,000 cubic feet of Hydroxy gas as some people will tell you… Even with the Worst case senerio I could think of and still be half way applicable it only needs 14LPM…. most cars will take Half to 3/4 of that amount to run 100% on hydroxy gas alone…

On the other hand if the 8 ounces of gasoline above  were replaced by Hydroxy gas and it took the 10.25 liters to propel the car down that 1 mile at 60MPH ( 60mph=1mile per minute)… then to cruse down the road at 60mph at that smaller consumption figure  you only need 10.25 liters to cruse…. again that is a incorrect assumption because you have to GET to 60MPH some how and that will take more LPM than that
…
So, Obviously the smaller the engine, the easier it will be to go 100% hydroxy gas… a smaller engine uses less gas!
...
 If we actually had some figures , like actual ounces of gasoline used go travel a mile or to accelerate to 60 or 65mph
we could predict exactly how much Hydroxy gas is needed…

unfortionately I don’t have that Data and my guesses at 8 ounces can be and probably is, way off the mark .
so use this info. accordingly ..just because you read it don’t make it a FACT !

I’m just trying to show you HOW to figure it …

….Bob...

[numberonekiwi]

Hi Bob, I do totally agree with you here as I recall I asked a question on the other side to which you replied based on the 14.7:1 ratio (14 or 15 who cares )but it was based on average consuption of 1 Ltr of gasoline for 8 KM ( 5 miles )/ ltr of gas multipied by say 15 would mean 15 ltrs of hydroxy to travel that same distance ( if I were already at that speed ) if it were the case that you needed total engine displacement then there would be no vacumm I dont think engine size is an issue here ( i may be wrong ) but as you also state it is getting to that speed ( as we all know ) that uses gasoline ( I have book marked LTCFishers post regarding full hydroxy ) he has claimed to of done this but there are some questions with regards to fuel pump always on ? a typo ?

Anyway Bob wish you the best with your forum don't ditch the other side yet there is a lot of knowledge there as well alot of it has progressed you to what you know now if we want to run 100% it will take team work and that does mean help from the other side and other places as well

Lets make a Goal : Several people running 100% by XMAS 2009 and get rid of oil co's 4EVA

[Bob]

Howdy Kiwi !
 Yah I know without a doubt I can run my truck on 100% hydroxy gas right now ...if I had the bucks to make the necessary changes...
FIRST OFF I need a bigger alternator... maybe even 2
but I want to do some preliminary tests to see how much Hydroxy gas it takes to run the truck down the road..."FOR A FACT" all the theories in the world are no good without actually having data to back them up... and I plan to have that info.
... I have an idea that may well make the switching over to Hydroxy gas almost completely painless.... I want to try putting the hydroxy gas into the injector group under pressure of about 30 P.S.I  and see if that works....
I think it will.... but because its going from a Liquid fuel to a gasious one the volumes needed are vastly diferent... so it may well starve for fuel if I do it that way.
....
we have seen too many people already run their engines on 100% hydroxy gas alone... so its not a question of if it can be done, but WHEN it is done!
...
Bob.......

[randy]

I had a 2.6 liter carbeurated engine running at 3000 rpm "with no load" on approximatly 8 LPM hydroxy with no gasoline, I thought the rpm might come up if I opened throttle butterfly but when I did it fell on it's face.

[bio_bloke]

i'm thinking about gettng a suzuki sierra - which is a tiny 4x4 little runabout.  it has varying engines but i was gonna look for the 1.0L engine and see what kind of mileage i could get.  I'm guessing it wouldn't take much hydroxy for this puppy to run on hydroxy alone.
Anyone used hydroxy on a suzuki sierra?

[Bob]

Hay Bio-Bloke !
When looking at any car make sure the silly thing has a distribiture in it in case you need to adjust the timeing.... some of these new fangled cars don't even have a distribiture in them any more its all done by the computer ! so the ignition is NOT adjustable....also make darn sure that it does NOT have a waste-spark cycle in it when running... that Kills any chance of being able to use Hydroxy gas in that engine as it will backfire through the intake on regular interivals...
 the waste spark system is becomeing more and more popular on cars now days... its cheeper to produce for the automakers but will not work on a Hydroxy powered or assisted car ..at least not without replaceing the ignition system !
...
Hope that helps !
Bob......

[randy]

usually there's no waste spark on multiple cylinder engines, on smaller single cylinder engines there's a waste spark because they run the spark signal off the crankshaft instead of the camshaft, easier or cheaper I guess.

[Bob]

Some guy was complaining about waste spark in a Bronco or something dunno what it was but it was almost brand new that I remember, and he had backfireing all the time as it ran with a Hydroxy booster connected , he sounded Pissed ...so I told him all I could sujest was replaceing the ignition system from an earlier model....
it was a multi cylinder !  I had never hurd of waste spark on multi's before that myself
just motorcycles... ( so be carefull if you add a Hydroxy unit to a bike!)
...
so unfortionately...they have begun to realy mess up the engines yet again !
what's next ceramic cylinders and no cooling systems ? hehehehe that will be the day!
but they have been trying to push that !!!!!
...
Bob.....

[LTCFISHER]

Hello,
I was going to purchase a propane conversion system for my truck and use hydro in place of propane.
Any food for thought on that? Engine type: 2.3L, 4cyl..
I now have to work on the tranny as I blew 5th gear on my recent trip. Hydro milage went way down running in 4th gear.

[randy]

You'll need to build pressure with your cells, once you get the right amount of pressure it might work.

[Bob]

LTCFisher:
 I have a propaine carb here and believe me when I say you are going to have a hell of a time jetting it properly... they make them for Propaine... not for anything else but you might be able to get the diaphram/jets combo for a smaller carb or larger carb to fit in the carb you buy... so check on that...
see if they can get you Hydrogen jets ... if they can't I don't think I'ed bother with it !
the jet itself ( i tried to modify mine) is an impossable little nipple with a slice cut out of it at a certain depth.... the vacume of the engine raises the jet to alow the gas into the engine.
So a pressure regulator on the gas pressure is a must ! they have them in a Pre-heater contraption
that hooks to the heater hoses....
...
see if you can find someone in the propaine business that knows what he is talking about with the instilation and running of propaine... that in itself is an oddity ! if its possable to re-jet the carb then it should work fantastically.... I could not get it to work on gasoline vapor alone!
...
Bob..........

[crb]

On the ones i've worked on (forklifts) there is a valve to restrict the amount of
propane to the engine.  IMPCO brand carb.

[Bob]

Exactly, they call it the PRE-Heater, it has a button it that you can press to get a bit ritcher mix to the carb to start cold engines ( like a choke) the unit I have is from a forklift single bbl
the line goes from the propaine tank to the "regulator/preheater" valve...then to the carberator
there are minor adjustments on the carb you can make but they are far to limited for anything but propaine...
 the forklifts I played with were TCM's with propaine addaptions on them... they overheated every day
I ran the forklift shop in Hoyte water heater co. in Reno Nv. for about 2 years and then they went bankrupt when I was on vacation, came back to a closed shop !
heheheheh
...
Bob........

[numberonekiwi]

Has anyone come across this document
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm03r0.pdf

Although based on hydrogen and not hydroxy may or may not be of help

Lets have some genius here have a look and post feedback I myself am still reading it

[Bob]

NumberoneKiwi:
 Yes thank you for that Location of that PDF , I down loaded it many months ago and wondered where the heck I got it ! HAHAHHAHAHA
it is very informative ....BUT as you Noted it is for HYDROGEN alone... and there is a big difference between pure Hydrogen and Hydroxy gas !....
....
At the biginning of this Thred I posted a thing on Calculateing the amount needed to run a vehicle
on Hydroxy gas... its very interesting and as far as I can tell very accurate too...
if you havn't read it  I sujest you do so and try to figure hw much your vehicle will need useing that method....
  although its very hard to get an accurate reading of how much gasoline your engine uses without putting a bottle on a stick and feed the carberator "intervineiously" (which works great by the way on older vehicles)  its practically impossable to get an accurate reading with a Fuel injected vehicle.
...
I know from personal experience a little gasoline usually goes a long way , and  my figures far above
this post  are fairly accurate.... this is how I came up with my estimate of 15LPM to run my truck on Hydroxy gas.... converting from gasoline to Hydroxy gas... but that is in itself a bit inaccurate because  Hydroxy gas is more explosive than gasoline... so it should actually take a bit less !
....
 With Pilot Guys "Balloon Test" of running his 4Liter engine for a Minute 8 seconds on 12Liters of hydroxy gas.... it again conferms my suspissions that  not only can it be done, but it will be done SOON..... Some of us  RIGHT NOW have the ability to go 100% hydroxy gas because of the high volume output they are getting from their Hydroxy units !.... the problem is even they don't think its enough !....  I want to RE-affirm  that "It don't take as Much Hydroxy gas to run the engine as we first THOUGHT!"
...
 we need to get to that 10LPM mark with our Hydroxy cells and start deviseing ways to Power the engine all the time on 100% hydroxy gas !....
because thats the problem faceing us now....
 its not can it be done guys... its what we have to do in addition to the Hydroxy cells inorder to run that gas all the time....the Hydroxy cell problem is almost solved now...  enough plate area and enough amps will get you 15LPM.... the problem now is running the engine on that gas all the time
.... what needs to be done and considered to make it realy useable for every day use...
we are very close !   
  Personally I think the single Dry cell approach is the way to go... because its less muss and fuss than 8 Randy cells.... but it is more expensive !
...
Considering what we have learned in the Past 6 months , what will it take to run the vehicle on 100%
Hydroxy gas ?  will we have to have a 1000watt PWM to control the Hydroxy cell's output ?
or can we get around that by useing relays and switches ?
will the Outside air have to be cept out of the engine completely ?
or can it be used to stretch the Hydroxy gas even further ?
...
these questions face us Now , and we need answers to continue to progress as we have been !
...
Bob..........