Hydroxy Gas and Electrical Generators

[Bob]

NumberoneKiwi:
  OOOOH YAH ! there ya go ! great thinking ! that will get the amps needed !
see what I mean about 2 heads are better than one ! ... thats had me stumpped for a week
and you had the answer ! thank you !
HAHHHHA
...It never ceses to amaze me, that no matter how well you consider a subject a single mind will miss important details... its almost inevitable...
...
I'm sure 10LPM would run the 8HP on 100% Hydroxy... thats almost a given...
...
Unfortionately, that project is going to have to take a place on the "back burner" till I get some of these other things done around here... Phittttt !
...
 I still have to get Moved off the Mountian top yet ! HAHAHAHAHHA
...
Bob...........

[Cowboy]

A quick thought about the 1200 amp alt and the power required to push it.  Have we all forgotten about the pulley system in our push for technological advancement?  Reduction pulleys and all that happiness make turning a heavy load pretty easy.    Maybe hooking the pulley up to a clutch fan (replace fan with pulley) just to allow for some slip during start-up/surge operation. 

[hydrotinkerer]

On some of the new alts. they already have small clutches on their own pulleys now.

[Cowboy]

Well, doesn't that reduce the amount of rigging required for a good test?    I like it when people think of things before me.  sure makes life easier.  Do you have year/models of the vehicles that come with one?

[hydrotinkerer]

I believe they start 04 and newer dodge and chrysler minivans. I'll check tomarrow and let you know for sure.

[Losttoo]

The difficult we do now, THE IMOPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES A LITTLE LONGER

LOSTTOO

[Bob]

hehehe Ok... here's what we got on the "Colaberation Generator"...<grin>
...
a 5hp B&s should run on 8LPM ( needs to be proven yet!)
a 100Amp Altenator should be able to be turned well by an 8HP engine (pullies/what not inc.)
Large Hydroxy cell to make 10LPM
large battery to store the power needed.
...
So in theory.. the 5HP will turn the 100amp altenator which powers the Hydroxy generator
that provides the Hydroxy gas for the 5hp motor.....
...
a self contained "Dunsel" that does nothing but generate heat... so we use it as a heat source.... so it is at least usefull for something.
 
this big unit may well work as a battery charger...
or we may possably find that because of the laws of Phisics it slowly will run down and can't keep up ...
...
only one way to tell... but it looks good on paper...to me
each step has built in lee-way  in the steps above... each one is More than it should need
which to me Assures that it will work....
...
a very interesting Idea... Someone needs to build one ! HAHAHAH
...
Bob.........

[numberonekiwi]

If your alternator was say only 100% eff then to generator 100Amps at 14v would net you 1400 Watts

I think you require 1 HP for 746 Watts so 1400 Watts would require about 1.9 HP

take a 50 eff alternator ( most should be higher ) so 1.9 / 0.5 = 3.8 HP which leaves about 1.2 HP spare not a lot do do anything with but it may run your living room lights hifi and television

Looking forward to your results if you can do it small scale then upsize ( not macdonalds or KFC LOL ) Run the entire house - sorry truck !

[Manta]

Numberonekiwi,

Now we are getting down to the one real question upon which the whole thing depends.

Are we trying to invent a perpetual machine machine or not ?

I have said from the beginning that I don't think you can attain 100%.  For me the question is how small an amount of fuel can you get down to using hydroxy.  If I could get a 20-30% improvement in mpg with full driveability then things would be looking good.  I would then be able to change from my Diesel 1.9 litre Citroen to my 1.8 Litre Opel Manta petrol car. And still show a profit.

I just can't see how you can run on 100% without the system eventually running out of battery power and stopping.  I would like to see it,  but not holding my breath. It's hard enough holding it while Fisher provides some meaningful gas production figures.

As for the big amps.  I recon that the problem is the resistance of stainless steel to electric current. 

Manta

[Bob]

Manta:
 I have No doubt in my mind that the idea here will be wastefull in the extream !
However if it can be done it is allot like a propetual engine in its concept
"getting more out than you put in" if you Look at it like that... but that is not the point
because you can get allot of amps by an altenator... and a fairly small engine can turn that altenator... and a Hydroxy generator that can power that engine should only take so many amps
etc,etc....
 all your doing here is changeing stuff around not breaking any laws of Phsyics just useing them in a way no one has tried before... it looks to me that it should be able to be done
Hydroxy gas is about 10 times more potent than gasoline air mix... and if that potency can be harnised in running that small engine it should produce more HP than usual... so the power to turn the altenator should not be the problem...
a 200 amp altenator is more than enough amprage to power enough hydroxy cells to make a 10LPM output...  and its Highly doubtfull that a 8hp engine will need more than that to run
at speed ....
so where is the problem ?
...
Sure there is a bunch of IF's in there.... but thats what makes it interesting...
you tell me...is it possable given those ideas ?
there will be a few tight areas no doubt... and it may be found that any number of the "Guesses" are too low... but untill thats proven to be true.. the given information we have seams to point that its possable ...
...
Bob.....

[Manta]

Bob,

Getting more out than you put in  is the problem for me. Even the huge nuclear fusion ideas that are under test need more in than out.  They still need a supply of fuel.
The way I see it,  and I may be wrong;  it won't be the first time, is that 1 litre of water will supply only so much hydroxy gas. It will take X amount of horse power or even Kw/Hr) to convert the water to gas. But you still have to account for the losses in the system through friction,  heat etc. I suspect that the answer will show the power needed to generate the gas will outweigh the power from the gas. So eventually the generator can't supply the neccessary power to produce enough gas.
The only power we get for free is from solar,  wind and hydro.  Apart from solar cells,  none of the above are really usable in cars.
I will settle for a steady 25% improvement on my fuel consumption. I'm off to the shed to play now.  See you later.

Manta

[Bob]

Well I'm sure you can get a 50% improvement if you stick with it... been quite a few people do that good.... even me !...
except mine didn't last very long ....kind'a like "heres a taste but you gott'a work more for it"  type thing ! HAHAHHAHAHA
...
I remember reading an Artical in Popular science mag. many years ago... about a Swedish
inventer that figured out a way to make a device to "Lift itself up by its boot straps"
...something totally impossable ...it put out no air thrust and was simply a pare of spinning arms that exchanged a weight back and forth as they spun in diferent directions....
the device has so many applications its pitiful but in space it would realy be super valuable
as the speed at which it could propell a space ship is almost unlimited...
.... he was granted a patent on the thing and was intertaining developeing it with the swedish military ... and that was the last I hurd of it...
...
they had a few pictures of it and explained how it worked and it was no doubt ingenious
the lifting capasity of his 3ft model was in tons... and was powered by electric motors but could be powered by any motor that could spin a shaft.
he was in the proccess of improveing the unit and makeing it smaller and faster to produce more lifting power...
but I've not hurd anything about it sense....
 it too defied the laws of physics... and did what was said to be impossable
yet he some how managed to FOOL the laws of nature...
 you arn't stopped by the laws of nature...you just gott'a get around them ! 
...
Bob......

[randy]

I too have been fraught with failure, get a good running cell with good output then I think "what if I tried this" so I try that and end up with a malfunctioning cell, only cure is to tear the thing down for thorough cleaning, I've lost count of how many times I've been standing in square one again.

[Manta]

Hey,  I heard about that idea as well.  We had a program on the tv in the UK called Heretics.  Covered a lot of off-the -wall stuff.  Very interesting.
There was a bit about Laithwaite.  He was the guy that invented the linear motor.  Also Ponns And Fleishman.

Still got it on vcr tape somewhere.

Manta

[Bob]

You got it Randy ! 2 steps foward one step back... but it is progress, slow but sure!
very good advice as well... I should listen to it ! HAHAHAHAHAH
...
Oh Randy... I dunno where you got that stainless steel shim stock but they got ya buddy..
its not Stainless... I have that piece on my bench and its rusting!... I got courious and picked up every single shimstock with my magnet that I had in the cell...
Now I know where the rust was comeing from...( as well as the few nuts )...
evedently the KOH just agravates the Rust ability and the Lemmonaid doesn't...
so lemmonaid with that shimstock is the way to go... it may be Stainless but it do rust !
... just so you know !
..my cells have been working for over 3 months so its not too serious a problem...
but sense your rebuilding each cell into the new Config.... ya might get diferent Shimstock
...its a thought !

Bob........
..